How do we THINK it's going to go?

[McSteamyorMcdreamy]

Edited: WHO do you think! 🤦‍♀️

I know there have been various threads about both candidates and policies, but thought it might be interesting to see peoples opinions via a straight shooting poll. Go!

Really. What has led you to think that?

I find this astonishing and it really doesn't reflect how nuanced human beings are.

I'm going to leave this here because I'm going to bed. But is this really preferable to accepting that some of the Democrats policies are unpalatable to otherwise moderate voters. Astonishing.

Do you think that nearly 50 percent of the USA want to vote in a misogynistic / undemocratic MAGA leader?

I mean my next question is why are they so dissatisfied with democracy at this point that they want to revert to something more authoritarian?

Why is democracy failing?

Do you think that nearly 50 percent of the USA want to vote in a misogynistic / undemocratic MAGA leader?

I certainly hope not. We’ll find out over the coming days.

Largely? A steady diet of disinformation. Anti-intellectualism, anti-science, anti-expert, identity politics on the Republican side.

The really funny thing is that the people whose discourse I respect the most in this election cycle are former moderate Republicans, many of whose views on policy I disagree with, but whose moral compasses I agree with. Nicolle Wallace, Matthew Dowd, Michael Steele, Adam Kinzinger, Liz Cheney, Tim Miller, Bill Kristol, Anne Applebaum, Mona Charen, Sarah Longworth, Sam Stein, Jonathan Van Last.

All of them disagree with you. You're blinded by a single issue.

I think Harris will
Take electoral college, he will take popular vote. Claim victory and rain he'll down on America & fights and riots will ensue.

I'm worried for family over there

Trump didn't win the popular vote in 2016 when he was fresh and new. I can't see that he'll win it now.

' You are blinded by a single issue'

No you are. Why do you think that the wishes of men with identities should override women's rights? Why do you think women should lose out on scholarships in sports to men who identify as women?

This single issue is the 'wrong side of history'. It is not progressive to put men first. It is not progressive to say to minority women such as sexual assault survivors or religious minority women that THEY are bigots for needing spaces away from male bodies. My daughter is an aspiring athlete. She deserves female sport for safety and fairness. The Democrats have this VERY wrong. Very wrong indeed.

Yes, this.

Honestly women will rue the day they were led to believe men's sexual rights are more important than single sex spaces.

Two sides same misogyny.

I haven't said what I think about that. I agree with the PP who said voting for Trump over Harris for that reason is like burning down your house because there's a stain on the carpet. I'm also saying that it's clear the Harris - Walz team has internal polling and information that tells them this is not an electorate-moving issue.

And now I am going to bed. Goodnight.

Well if you believe that women should have sex based rights once she wins the election put her to task on this because she doesn't think that religious minority women/ sexual abuse survivors or women athletes should have single sex spaces. I find her misogyny and adherence to a male centric ideology extremely offensive. If she holds the office of POTUS as a woman I would expect her to value women's rights. We'll see.

Whoever wins, there is a lot of division in America (other countries too, but it is about the US election). Inequality is growing, division is rife and there is, I am convinced, a real prospect of the US ceasing to function as a united democracy in my life time. I hope for long term peace and equality, and short term peace in the coming weeks and months as the result is known and people react.

There are literally less than 50 trans athletes on both sides playing NCAA sports currently out of 500,000 college athletes. It is a non issue pushed by hard core trans activists and the right wing.

I don’t believe it’s a non-issue. But Trump is so egregious in every possible way, entirely despicable in any sane or reasonable measure, that even that could not make me vote for him. And let’s be honest, he could not give one shiny shit about women.

~50 too many then.

Hope for Harris but think Trump.

Sadly i think Trump. Very much hoping im wrong

And 50 women displaced from places they’ve worked for.

I know Trump has a lot of die hard supporters I've seen some of the interviews etc but also I think a lot of Republicans esp older woman it seems can see through him, & I think younger women & fathers are going for Harris due to the female reproductive rights issues, fingers crossed for Harris 🙏🏻

50 women who've trained for nothing to see their opportunities removed by males.

There should be female classes for xx only and an open class which can include everyone else who does not meet the xx criteria. It is easily dealt with with a once in a life time cheek swab.

That would be fairness and equality.

What we have is women being told we can't have fair sporting opportunities. It is regressive. It has led to sanctioned violence with women being beaten up for 'sport' by males in the Olympics.

Thanks all for your comments. Got the red wine primed for an anxious evening/morning!

@artis1 I am going to ask for this book for Christmas because it does look very interesting.

But from the synopsis -

Reeling from Barack Obama's 2012 landslide presidential victory – and motivated by a spiritual mission – a small but determined network of elite conservative Christian lawyers and powerbrokers worked quietly and methodically to keep their true cause alive: ending abortion rights. Thinking in generational terms, they devised a strategic, top-down takeover at every level of political and legal life, from little-known anti-abortion lobbyists in far flung statehouses to the arbiters of the constitution at the highest court in the land. Broad swaths of liberal America did not register the severity of the threat until it was far too late. At a moment when women had more power than ever before, the feminist movement suffered one of the greatest political defeats in American history.

I don't dispute any of this, clearly it was the religious right to 'conspired' to do this.

My point was that it could have been avoided.

If the democrats were not aware of how fragile reproductive rights were under Roe v Wade then why was it a pre-election promise for Obama? And why in 2009 did he say it wasn't a pressing issue?

https://www.newsweek.com/barack-obama-blasted-not-codifying-roe-v-wade-democrat-failure-1719156

Put bluntly had Obama kept his election promise then no 'small but determined network of elite.....' would have been able to conspire to use the Supreme Court to overturn the ruling and this wouldn't be a ticket issue for Harris.

i know that this is off topic for tonights election but I do find this notion that the democrats are the great saviours of women to be baffling because the whole situation was avoidable and because they can use this to hide the impact on women of identity politics.

2022 article from the Guardian on the historic failures of the Democrats wrt to reproductive rights.

As we all know the Guardian is a paper that is biased in favour of the Democrats.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jun/28/why-were-democrats-caught-flat-footed-by-the-end-of-roe-v-wade

From the article -

When Obama took office, Democrats controlled both houses of Congress. In the states, Democrats controlled more legislatures than Republicans did; more states had a Democratic trifecta (Democratic governors plus both state legislative bodies) than a Republican one. There was a brief moment here to get a lot done in the name of both democracy and women’s rights: get rid of the undemocratic Electoral College; codify Roe; rescind the Hyde Amendment, which bars federal Medicaid dollars from funding abortions for poor women, and the Helms Amendment, which bars US funding from paying for abortions for women overseas. Advocates asked the Obama administration to do all of that; they did none.

I don't understand the terror in some over abortion, to the point that they are going around beeping cars and giving a finger to a random priest.

I also don't understand why those who want body autonomy think other women should have to put up with creeps in women's spaces? I would rather the rape/pregnancy did not happen in the first place, thus keep the creeps out, (so there wouldn't be a requirement for abortion) if you aren't disrobed around one of the creeps who takes his chances.

8.30 minutes in, as people doubt the priest story.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xV1MdcsimIk&t=1065s&pp=ygURcmVjbGFpbSB0aGUgbWVkaWE%3D