Why isn’t there a political party who sit in the middle

[UpcomingElection2024]

I’ve been following all the political news recently and watching the live debates and can’t help but think why isn’t there a political party that represent the majority of what I would call hard working normal people want. I’m aware that this means different things to different people but surely there are some policies that people in both labour and Tory camps would agree on such as:

proper control of migration:

1. allow in skilled workers to plug the gaps in labour, we should welcome people who add value to our country and want to contribute the society and allow them to apply for residency / dual citizenship after x years.
2. allow safe routes and channels into the country for those fleeing persecution in their own countries, but not when they have travelled through other safe countries to get here. I’m genuinely curious why they come to UK after they have arrived in France when they could stop there - what is the draw?
3. hard stop on illegal immigration, surely options 1 & 2 above are the correct viable options. If investment is needed in 1 & 2 then we should put it in place.
4. stop any type of benefits for group 1 above, they haven’t paid into the country to qualify and should work to fund being here.

proper investment in healthcare:

1. properly fund clinical staff in healthcare, overhaul managerial roles and invest in up to date IT systems to streamline services
2. Add in more frontline clinical staff to improve quality of care basically have a more sensible ratio of clinical to admin/managerial roles (more Indians less chiefs)
3. give PIP benefits to those who truely need it and ensure they can have a proper quality of life and support for families, the Kate Garaway documentary was heartbreaking.
4. reduce ambiguous PIP payments for hidden disabilities that can’t be properly proven. Why does ADHD need paying for? (Genuinely curious) it never existed before and people made adjustments to their lives to accommodate any needs.

Education:

1. make teaching an attractive profession again and support teachers to be able to teach and not be tied up with targets etc
2. stop school fines - it’s just a money making ploy

Councils:

1. hold them to account on their spending
2. invest more in public services, local swimming pools, maintaining public areas, the councils should work for the people who live in their communities and reflect their needs not be run like businesses

Energy companies:

1. again hold them to account and cap the profits they are allowed to make.
2. enforce them to reinvest in xx% beck into infrastructure

welfare/ benefits

1. It shouldn’t be an option to choose not to work because someone is better off on benefits, this baffles me that it’s a viable option for some.
2. why should workers fund those who choose not to work ( not those who physically can’t)
3. cap how long someone can be on benefits like in other countries. It shouldnt be there as an option to help short term to help get people back into work and shouldn’t be used as an alternative to working

I suppose my point is surely there’s a mid point in some of these topics that both Tory and labour voters would buy into that would make society a fairer and more united place.

once we get the country back on track we can then move forward but to me it feels like we’re in a sinking boat trying to get the water out with a teaspoon.

it’s frustrating to agree with certain policies from each party but none that truly take in the views of the majority. (Again maybe I’m disillusioned on what this is) surely there’s topics that the majority of the country agree on!

No one has said you’re “stealing” anything. however you did say you were claiming benefits. I’m not at all “pissed off” with you. You’re a stranger on the internet.

I’m talking about PIP as a whole. It’s extremely costly and I don’t think it’s value for money. Many conditions are very subjective and I agree with the op that I don’t think the benefit reflects any additional costs.

With respect to disability benefits.

These are split by age group and by whether you have contributed national insurance.

If you are disabled and under 16 you claim DLA

If you become disabled after state retirement age you can claim attendance allowance if you need care but there is no benefit specifically for disability. If you already get PIP then it will continue into retirement age but it's usually reviewed every 3/5 years.

So PIP is for 16-67 only plus people still on it after retirement. It's meant to be for extra costs incurred because of disability and it's not about whether you can work or not.

There are 3.4 million people in PIP in England and wales. www.gov.uk/government/statistics/personal-independence-payment-statistics-to-april-2024/personal-independence-payment-official-statistics-to-april-2024

(Scotland has a new system of disability benefits which they are moving to so they are not included)

Half of all claims of PIP are turned down.

Because pip awards continue into retirement some of the people on pip will be beyond retirement age. Pip awards beyond retirement age tend to have review periods of 10 years or ongoing (no review).

So you can't say that the 3.4 million are all working age because they are almost certainly not.

I can't find data by age to try to work out how many are working age - the dwp don't seem to have it.

So you say your family member got all her kids diagnosed with adhd when they don’t have it, so that she can fraudulently claim benefits? Who diagnosed them? It’s incredibly hard to get a diagnosis even when the adhd is having a severe effect on someone’s life.
Please let me know who these doctors are who throw out diagnoses so easily. I have a family member who without doubt has adhd, and desperately needs the workplace adjustments that would help them cope. Their choice is a 12 month+ NHS waiting list, or hundreds of £ to go private.
And please report your relative for benefit fraud.

’Claiming benefits’

Yeah, l worked my entire life. I’m not claiming ‘benefits’

Im claiming help for my severe disability.

Its not like I’ve spent a life in the dole really is it?

surely there’s topics that the majority of the country agree on

If there are, they're not really the ones you've posted here.

Most of your ideas here aren't actually centrist at all. They're basically just right-wing populism. You also seem to be missing the point that it isn't just policies that make someone left or right-wing - it's also how they're funded.

For example, pretty much everyone would probably like to see better schools and hospitals, but the difference between left and right would be how that's funded and run. For example, most people would agree that it's in the country's interest to have decent schools. That's a pretty centrist position. But some people would want to see that achieved through increased income tax and initiatives like Labour's plans to add tax to private school fees, or even the abolition of private schools entirely - those would be left-wing positions. Others might want to see it achieved by privatising the entire school system and making parents pay a fee per child to give their kids an education, or by refusing to educate children with additional needs, or by allowing kids to leave school and get a job at 13 - those would be right-wing positions.

Except for benefits, most of your views are what I consider left wing. Plenty of people with right wing views would not agree with putting more into healthcare, education and public facilities.
Traditionally Lib Dems were in the middle politically, but not now. I think Labour is just left of centre under Starmer - similar to Tories back in the 1950s/60s. Corbyn was too far left. Tories have moved much further right. I know other people would not agree with this.

That may be the case that some of the people on PIP are no longer working age. I do query whether pensioners should get pip - as people get older they often have mobility issues (and other health problems). It seems unfair that those who claim pip prior to retirement may continue to get it while those people who are retired would not be treated the same.

However still there are 3.4 million people on PIP which is a huge cost to society. I think we should go back to first principles and query if this is the best use of public resources

PIP is a state benefit. Same as UC or JSA.

Please let me know how you can get a diagnosis of ADHD without extensive input from professionals, my son has waited 2 years for a psychiatric appointment to find out exactly what health issues he has. That includes a very serious attempt to end his life. The system is broken and not fit for purpose. He already has ASD and has PIP for that so probably won't be awarded any more no matter what the diagnosis. He would give anything to not have ASD which seriously impacts his life, but to the outside world he looks fit and well.

So @KreedKafer you see me as right wing and @Marshfritillary sees me as left wing…so does that put me in the middle? 🤷🏻‍♀️

Again you need to understand how the system works.

PIP is a working age benefit. If you're getting it at 66 you keep it but you can't get the mobility element increased if you get worse after that age.

The pension age benefit for people needing help with daily living, or rather attention in relation bodily functions, is Attendance Allowance. There's nothing in AA for mobility except in so far as being unable to use stairs and move around the house is concerened.

Totally agree with this. As someone with adhd (who has never claimed a penny and works full time) I felt that was a really shitty judgemental thing to say. Try living with it, had then maybe you might understand.

I actually don't disagree with you that perhaps PIP isn't the right thing for ADHD, but faster diagnosis, access to medication if you choose, and tailor support is. So for you to fob it off like that as if it's a trend is incredibly offensive.

We have parties that "sit in the middle"@UpcomingElection2024. Both Libdems and Labour are centrist. The Conservative Party used to be a centre right party but then they lost their fucking minds and are now totally batshit.😵‍💫

@KreedKafer sadly I don’t believe either of them when it comes to how they’ll be funded.

according to Starmer Rishi has double counted money he’s already spent and Starmer can’t articulate most points he’s trying to make.

genuinely I feel like they spout a load of policies and undoubtedly when labour get in they will turn around and say ‘oh it’s a lot worse that we thought we now can’t afford x, y, z’

@greyrainbows no where have I said it’s a trend, I also expressed I don’t know everything about it and was happy to be educated.

i say this as someone who is currently awaiting an assessment, and has friends with it who don’t claim anything for it. my point is I’m not sure what the payment funds and instead a more suitable solution is to fund adequately the services/medication that allow people to work and not be limited by their condition.

There is. Labour are too central for me right now. I am voting for them still but im more left leaning.

You’d clearly prefer that people with disabilities lived a life of poverty with nothing to look forward to other than meeting their basic needs.

We’re also constantly beating ourselves up for “failing” at life so fucking catastrophically.

The Conservatives have been double-counting for several years.

Some local rail improvements were promised under one national rail infrastructure funding program, re-promised under a second regional rail funding program a year later, and then yet again under the benefits to be delivered from the funding not being spent on HS2 just 4 months later. Last time I checked all three funding programs were being counted in the total for planned future rail investment. Of course, nothing's actually been done.

Assuming Labour gets in, they'll be expected to deliver something immediately (my bet is something NHS based as it's universally popular), but in reality they'll need six months to find their feet, adjust priorities once they get full insight into how deep the rabbit hole goes, and fixing the system is a job for 2-3 parliaments.

The good news is there's the prospect of the Conservative party imploding and disappearing up it's own fundament for 40 years in the wilderness. The bad news is that Reform will likely do well out of this. If the LibDems do well enough to form a credible opposition that cooperates on shared policy objectives there's a chance that Labour might get a 2 term run at it, providing they don't make a Truss of the first term.

I haven’t told you anything about how my disabilities affect me though.

So how can you possibly judge whether l need it or not?

Is that you Rishi?

@UpcomingElection2024 How did you get on with Vote For Policies?

I’m not tagged here but I’ll answer … if you have a condition that affects your day to day living then why not claim? It doesn’t make you a hero?

i was diagnosed with adhd earlier this year at 56 years of age. I’ve worked almost all my life, apart from when I was raising my children. I’ve also been in burnout more times than I can count with the effort of working and trying to manage my (undiagnosed) condition.

I don’t claim pip because I personally don’t feel I meet the criteria - I can wash and dress myself reasonably adequately, I can cook a meal and I can find my way to strange places. I can’t pay a bill until my life depends on it regardless of the amount of money in the account. I can’t keep a tidy house (and never have) And I’m rapidly on my way to my next burn out in my current job.

I have a female friend, former work colleague, who was diagnosed with ADHD at 50. It explained a lot for her.

Or in some cases because NHS treatment only goes so far and then there’s a dead end. My DP has two separate issues that cause him chronic pain and sporadic unbearable pains on top of it. There’s possible help for these if you have thousands of pounds for private treatment but the NHS doesn’t offer them.

I do understand how the system works. Some people who already get PIP continue to get it after state pension age. Yet a pensioner who hasn’t made a PIP claim prior to state pension age wouldn’t get PIP regardless of whether they would qualify (if it were not for their age). It’s that disparity I am saying is unfair.