Why isn’t there a political party who sit in the middle

[UpcomingElection2024]

I’ve been following all the political news recently and watching the live debates and can’t help but think why isn’t there a political party that represent the majority of what I would call hard working normal people want. I’m aware that this means different things to different people but surely there are some policies that people in both labour and Tory camps would agree on such as:

proper control of migration:

1. allow in skilled workers to plug the gaps in labour, we should welcome people who add value to our country and want to contribute the society and allow them to apply for residency / dual citizenship after x years.
2. allow safe routes and channels into the country for those fleeing persecution in their own countries, but not when they have travelled through other safe countries to get here. I’m genuinely curious why they come to UK after they have arrived in France when they could stop there - what is the draw?
3. hard stop on illegal immigration, surely options 1 & 2 above are the correct viable options. If investment is needed in 1 & 2 then we should put it in place.
4. stop any type of benefits for group 1 above, they haven’t paid into the country to qualify and should work to fund being here.

proper investment in healthcare:

1. properly fund clinical staff in healthcare, overhaul managerial roles and invest in up to date IT systems to streamline services
2. Add in more frontline clinical staff to improve quality of care basically have a more sensible ratio of clinical to admin/managerial roles (more Indians less chiefs)
3. give PIP benefits to those who truely need it and ensure they can have a proper quality of life and support for families, the Kate Garaway documentary was heartbreaking.
4. reduce ambiguous PIP payments for hidden disabilities that can’t be properly proven. Why does ADHD need paying for? (Genuinely curious) it never existed before and people made adjustments to their lives to accommodate any needs.

Education:

1. make teaching an attractive profession again and support teachers to be able to teach and not be tied up with targets etc
2. stop school fines - it’s just a money making ploy

Councils:

1. hold them to account on their spending
2. invest more in public services, local swimming pools, maintaining public areas, the councils should work for the people who live in their communities and reflect their needs not be run like businesses

Energy companies:

1. again hold them to account and cap the profits they are allowed to make.
2. enforce them to reinvest in xx% beck into infrastructure

welfare/ benefits

1. It shouldn’t be an option to choose not to work because someone is better off on benefits, this baffles me that it’s a viable option for some.
2. why should workers fund those who choose not to work ( not those who physically can’t)
3. cap how long someone can be on benefits like in other countries. It shouldnt be there as an option to help short term to help get people back into work and shouldn’t be used as an alternative to working

I suppose my point is surely there’s a mid point in some of these topics that both Tory and labour voters would buy into that would make society a fairer and more united place.

once we get the country back on track we can then move forward but to me it feels like we’re in a sinking boat trying to get the water out with a teaspoon.

it’s frustrating to agree with certain policies from each party but none that truly take in the views of the majority. (Again maybe I’m disillusioned on what this is) surely there’s topics that the majority of the country agree on!

@bergamotorange if honestly want the dumbed down version to start with. I don’t think the politicians make it easy, all of the crap put through my door don’t address the topics which I have a view on.

😂😂😂😂😂

DD is 17. She’s too ill to work. Shes got an EHCP

I’m 60. I’m too ill to get out of bed. ive done my fucking honours in terms of tax and NI since 16

The Lib Dems are just an even more left-wing version of Labour!

That’s nice.

as I said, the purpose of these benefits is not to pay for private healthcare. It’s supposed to pay for extra costs that disabled people have. I don’t think they are working as intended and we need to look at them again.

reduce ambiguous PIP payments for hidden disabilities that can’t be properly proven. Why does ADHD need paying for?

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt.

You have also used the phrase mild ADHD.

There's genuinely nothing mild about ADHD except how you as an outside perceive it.

ADHD causes crippling executive dysfunction issues.

This is issues with planning and organising, starting tasks, finishing tasks, following up on tasks, short term memory, impulsively, rigid thinking, poor self monitoring, emotional regulation issues, issues with goal orientated tasks, time blindness, and issues prioritising tasks.

Everyone might have issues with this from time to time, but those of us with ADHD will suffer with this every day of our lives.

We will forget to do tasks, forget to turn the cooker off, forget to follow up texts with friends and relationships, forget to respond to important emails, forget about bills, forget about meetings we are supposed to have, double book and then persistently have to cancel or forget to cancel whichever appointment lapses, etc.

To an outsider, looking at someone who has support to do these things it might look "mild" or like there's no evidence of disability but throw that same person in a different environment like work or school or college and the amount of effort that person has to put in is significantly higher than their peers until they reach burnout and they get anxious and depressed and the mental health crises start and there is no support.

Our needs fluctuate.

That's why payments are needed. Because we deserve support.

We aren't forgetting to close windows and letting all the heat out at night because we're lazy, ultimately costing more in heating. We aren't forgetting about food we've already bought because we can't see it and we're lazy, costing more in food. We aren't forgetting what time the bus comes because we're lazy, costing us more in taxis.

We are disabled.

And what you have said is incredibly ableist.

@Tilly22222 as the grandchild of an immigrant I 199% they should be allowed here if there own country is unsafe, but I suppose I’m picking at the topic of what are we offering that makes it so attractive to not stop in other countries. I’ve always had the perception our benefits system is more financially rewarding but I may be mis understood.

Ha ha you bit😂

As if

So that’s correct that neither of you work.

as I said, these benefits are supposed to be for extra costs but it’s not clear in many cases that they are working as intended. They are very expensive and I think should be reviewed as a whole.

I think you should look at the pip criteria. It is difficult to get pip. I also think that some people will need benefits longer term. My dd aged 19 has similar abilities to a three year old and cannot speak in sentences. Is she supposed to earn her own living?

You have no fucking idea.

We both got it first time. So severe there was no argument or need to appeal. Get your head round that.

I have an income of my own. I’m not stealing your money. But l kind of wish l was to piss you off even more.

@Jimmyneutronsforehead so if I told you I had ADHD but don’t claim what would your thoughts be? Should I be claiming even though I work and don’t need to?

i am currently awaiting an assessment, as suffer with a lot of what you mention (may be perimenopause but that’s another topic) yet I’ve worked since I was 16.

i also have a friend who actively talks about his ADHD and runs a very successful business.

I do think there are varying degrees of ADHD but my friend doesn’t claim and it doesn’t prevent him working, he takes medication.

genuinely curious as to what the payments fund/help with? Access to medicine?

There's some information here on asylum seekers, why some come to the UK and what access to benefits they have www.refugee-action.org.uk/facts-about-asylum/?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwvvmzBhA2EiwAtHVrb7uAEoZp3gQ3QvgADshRDDIivDJVOKUxRBEAnPofTsLgedZegKFK-BoCI_8QAvD_BwE

@cansu no I believe your child should 100% be given support

I'm not sure all your views are traditionally centrist, but they're mostly in the centre of where things stand now. Mostly. Leaning to Centre-Right on a few things.

To come back to the NHS from my earlier reply, and something Wes Streeting almost managed to say a couple of days ago on WATO. The NHS waiting lists have grown exponentially in the last 14 years. The costs of the NHS (and Social Care) rise as the waiting lists grow, because many of those waiting for treatments that might fix their health issues will see their situation deteriorate. They require more patch-up treatments whilst waiting. Their mobility declines and they need additional care support. Although it will take a huge investment to clear the waiting lists, there are massive savings to be made by doing this and reducing the patch-up health intervention and social care costs associated with these treatments not being delivered.

Likewise, investment in Sure Start was proven to deliver long term benefits that lasted into adulthood for the children that passed through these schemes. They are healthier, more likely to be in employment, less likely to be in the criminal justice system, etc. The payoff takes a decade, but it's long lasting.

Labour might need to either raise debt or raise revenue to make the original investments, but the long term benefit to the public finances and society is there.

I think that's the wrong approach though.

You can't expect the leaflets through the door to educate you - the aim of those is to persuade you to vote for them.

To properly understand politics you have to get into the reasons why party A proposes this while party B proposes that - the philosophy, the people they're trying to persuade, the history of the issue, the change they want to make.

It is complicated. I think wanting complicated things to be made simple is an error. Surely better to grow your understanding.

I don't think it's good to actively want things 'dumbed down'! That makes you vulnerable to lies and manipulation.

@Tilly22222 wow thank you for that I didn’t know some of that!

shame the statistics aren’t up to date though

I’m genuinely curious why they come to UK after they have arrived in France when they could stop there - what is the draw?

The top 3 reasons are:

1. They don't qualify for asylum in France. Their qualifying family member is in the U.K.

2. They speak English, not French.

3. They had contact with British armed forces during the war that forced them to flee and because of that they think Britain must be a decent, fair and moral place to live.

About 10% of all working age people are in receipt of PIP (about 3.8 million people or so). That’s a huge cost and doesn’t seem to indicate it’s rare or hard to get.

Noonehas made any comments on your daughter nor would we. We’re talking about pip as a whole

Where does your perception come from? It is not fact-based.

UK benefits are lower than many European countries.

UK also takes in fewer asylum seekers than many other European nations.

Look at empire history, language, family ties. This helps explain why certain people want to move to certain places.

Many of the countries they are coming from are ex-Empire nations, or where the UK has meddled/exploited been involved in either recently or longer ago. They may have family already living here. They may already speak some English.

There is no obligation to seek asylum in the first safe country. But despite this most people do. The UK does not take in many refugees and asylum seekers compared to many poorer countries closer to where these people are fleeing from. We don't have the semi-permanent camps with tens of thousands of refugees living in tents, other countries do. And whenever the foreign aid budget is cut we're reducing the support to those countries that are bearing the greatest refugee burden and only encouraging refugees to keep moving onward, and eventually a few end up on UK shores.

Now if we weren't so arsey about working with other countries (including the EU) and we were prepared to cooperate in processing centres further from us on the edges of Europe, and accept our fair allocation of refugees, then perhaps the countries they were passing through would be more inclined to cooperate with the UK on reducing these movement. But the UK prefers to go it's own way.

That's pretty much my take too although it's important to understand that Asylum is granted to those who can show a well founded fear of persecution. There is no requirement for a 'qualifying family member' though one major reason for coming to the UK is family, even if it's remote, or kith/kin in the sense of a well established community here.

PIP is not means tested, it is based on need.

You can work and claim PIP, and you might find it benefits you if it's something that you want.

If you're comfortably within an environment consistently that meets your needs and you specifically do not feel that you need additional support or incur additional costs from your disability then you do not need to apply. Nobody is forcing you to.

For a lot of us there are so many hidden costs like the costs of transport, the costs of outsourcing tasks, the costs to replace items, the costs associated with losing your job due to being unable to remain employed as not all employers are willing or able to make accomodations nor are they all understanding, the additional household costs incurred due to not being able to manage a house properly, the cost of additional talking therapies or specialised therapies that aren't offered on the NHS just to stay afloat, sometimes the cost of diagnosis itself.

without wishing to state the obvious too much, information about asylum seekers from a group called “Refugee action” will be one (obviously pro refugee) side of the story and there will be another side and many in between positions too. You have to decide for yourself- there is no one answer

I do benefits including PIP and AA for a living.

On that basis, and having done my share of Mandatory Reconsiderations and Tribunal appeals I can assure you it's no cakewalk.

As alluded to by PP one reason we've so many people on PIP and or income replacement benefits is becuase the condition that stops them doing stuff isn't treated while they're on waiting lists.

Before we start casting aspersions at people on health benefits we need to understand WHY they're on them.

And yet it appears that this is why the Conservatives are falling apart.

Most people support benefits, and do t want to cut them.

https://bylinetimes.com/2024/05/03/conservative-nasty-party-as-voters-reject-plan-to-cut-benefits-sick-and-disabled/