Page 7 | Is Keir Starmer too boring to be prime minister?

Tulipsroses · 2023-12-29T09:34:26+00:00

I was reading an article in the Spectator this morning. Interesting to hear what people think. https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/is-keir-starmer-too-boring-to-be-prime-minister/

Desecratedcoconut · 30/12/2023 09:33

jgw1 · 30/12/2023 09:30

An accurate description of government policy for the past 13 years. Well done.

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Can you name one Tory MP boo-ing from the sidelines when a female MP of any ilk spoke about the importance of codifying woman as a sex and not a series of stereotypes? Or one female Tory MP who was told not to attend a party conference for heretical opinions on gender?

BIossomtoes · 30/12/2023 09:34

SutWytTi · 30/12/2023 09:31

Is there any actual evidence of this 'big personal following'? Many MPs say this - but how many people really want to vote for someone who has been removed from their seat following the type of allegations Bone has faced?

I am fine for him to have an impact on the Tory vote, but what that says to me is Reform is struggling far more than UKIP did to get candidates - and they had issues too.

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His removal only needed 10% of his constituents to sign the petition. His followers will be even more eager to support him because they think he’s been wronged and badly treated. Apparently he genuinely is a decent constituency MP.

BIossomtoes · 30/12/2023 09:36

Desecratedcoconut · 30/12/2023 09:33

Can you name one Tory MP boo-ing from the sidelines when a female MP of any ilk spoke about the importance of codifying woman as a sex and not a series of stereotypes? Or one female Tory MP who was told not to attend a party conference for heretical opinions on gender?

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The Home Secretary thinks it’s fine to sedate women to make them docile.

jgw1 · 30/12/2023 09:37

CrispsandCheeseSandwich · 30/12/2023 09:33

If Reform are even in discussions it would be a sign they have no vaguely decent candidates available at all. Why would any party want to stand the very candidate the electorate in that constituency have just voted to remove??

I can easily believe they have no decent candidates. But also you only need 10% of the electorate to call for a by-election in a recall petition, and I imagine the 13% who voted to kick Peter Bone out are perhaps not the people likely to vote Reform in the first place. Bone got 65% of the vote in the last election.

The Tories got 62.7% of the vote in the deeply conservative North Shropshire constituency in 2019. Didn't help them when there was a by-election...

Desecratedcoconut · 30/12/2023 09:38

BIossomtoes · 30/12/2023 09:36

The Home Secretary thinks it’s fine to sedate women to make them docile.

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Shall I take that as a no?

jgw1 · 30/12/2023 09:38

Desecratedcoconut · 30/12/2023 09:33

Can you name one Tory MP boo-ing from the sidelines when a female MP of any ilk spoke about the importance of codifying woman as a sex and not a series of stereotypes? Or one female Tory MP who was told not to attend a party conference for heretical opinions on gender?

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I imagine the Tory MPs you are looking for are the same ones who voted to not feed children during the pandemic, but instead were quite happy to enrich their mates many of whom already had more money than any one person could possibly need in their lifetime.

user1477391263 · 30/12/2023 09:38

He is competent which is what I care about.

After Boris and Truss, haven’t we all had enough of silly politicians?

Desecratedcoconut · 30/12/2023 09:39

jgw1 · 30/12/2023 09:38

I imagine the Tory MPs you are looking for are the same ones who voted to not feed children during the pandemic, but instead were quite happy to enrich their mates many of whom already had more money than any one person could possibly need in their lifetime.

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Still no?

CrispsandCheeseSandwich · 30/12/2023 09:39

@jgw1 oh I know. I'm just saying that I can see why Reform, with perhaps a very small pool of potential candidates, might see Bone as a reasonable choice. Even if he doesn't win he might give them a good result (by their normal standards).

BIossomtoes · 30/12/2023 09:39

Desecratedcoconut · 30/12/2023 09:38

Shall I take that as a no?

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If you think that’s OK because the Tories “know what a woman is”, crack on.

jgw1 · 30/12/2023 09:40

Desecratedcoconut · 30/12/2023 09:38

Shall I take that as a no?

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You do that, and we'll assume you agree with the Home Secretary on sedating women to make them compliant.
I take it that is a fair agreement?

jgw1 · 30/12/2023 09:42

CrispsandCheeseSandwich · 30/12/2023 09:39

@jgw1 oh I know. I'm just saying that I can see why Reform, with perhaps a very small pool of potential candidates, might see Bone as a reasonable choice. Even if he doesn't win he might give them a good result (by their normal standards).

Is reform the outfit led by Fox?
If so then I can't imagine they have very high standards.

Desecratedcoconut · 30/12/2023 09:42

BIossomtoes · 30/12/2023 09:39

If you think that’s OK because the Tories “know what a woman is”, crack on.

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Try again - women as a biology, women as a sex class, women in health services, women in sport, children in school, free speech, safeguarding....you'd throw all this away because you are too dim or reluctant to see the issue at play.

jgw1 · 30/12/2023 09:42

Desecratedcoconut · 30/12/2023 09:39

Still no?

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You are happy with not feeding children, but instead enriching people who already have more money than they need?

Its a strange world we live in.

CrispsandCheeseSandwich · 30/12/2023 09:43

@jgw1 no that's reclaim.

Reform is led by Richard Tice, Isabel Oakeshott's partner.

jgw1 · 30/12/2023 09:43

Desecratedcoconut · 30/12/2023 09:42

Try again - women as a biology, women as a sex class, women in health services, women in sport, children in school, free speech, safeguarding....you'd throw all this away because you are too dim or reluctant to see the issue at play.

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A very accurate description of 13 years of Tory government.

jgw1 · 30/12/2023 09:44

CrispsandCheeseSandwich · 30/12/2023 09:43

@jgw1 no that's reclaim.

Reform is led by Richard Tice, Isabel Oakeshott's partner.

Ah, my mistake.

So reform are slightly less bonkers than the fully bonkers party. I see.

Squeaky2023 · 30/12/2023 09:44

AnnaMagnani · 29/12/2023 09:41

I think boring is a selling point TBH.

Look at the chaos Boris created. We need someone competent and interested in effective government not self promotion.

Yes!
He has a great track record and is accomplished in his own right via career achievements rather than a corrupt old boys' club who prioritises their own and their friends' business interests.

Desecratedcoconut · 30/12/2023 09:45

jgw1 · 30/12/2023 09:40

You do that, and we'll assume you agree with the Home Secretary on sedating women to make them compliant.
I take it that is a fair agreement?

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And when your magical thinking is codified further in law and policy and still wondering why there was no material difference in the quality of life for women when the ties shifted from blue to red you will have won, but you won't have much to show for it.

Squeaky2023 · 30/12/2023 09:46

Ifailed · 29/12/2023 09:52

"Starmer is Boring" is a trope that's been pushed by the hard-right press for a while, a classic misdirection to steer people away from the cess-pit that the Tory party has become.

Yes, remember the campaign against Ed Milliban because he looked a bit funny?

BIossomtoes · 30/12/2023 09:47

Desecratedcoconut · 30/12/2023 09:42

Try again - women as a biology, women as a sex class, women in health services, women in sport, children in school, free speech, safeguarding....you'd throw all this away because you are too dim or reluctant to see the issue at play.

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That’s melodramatic bollocks. You lose the argument when you resort to insulting people who don’t agree with you. Thing is you’ve made it clear that you have no idea what Labour’s policy on this issue is and you’re just making it up as you go along.

jgw1 · 30/12/2023 09:47

Desecratedcoconut · 30/12/2023 09:45

And when your magical thinking is codified further in law and policy and still wondering why there was no material difference in the quality of life for women when the ties shifted from blue to red you will have won, but you won't have much to show for it.

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No difference in quality of life, will be a significant improvement on the past 13 years where the government has consistently eroded most people's quality of life.

Desecratedcoconut · 30/12/2023 09:48

BIossomtoes · 30/12/2023 09:47

That’s melodramatic bollocks. You lose the argument when you resort to insulting people who don’t agree with you. Thing is you’ve made it clear that you have no idea what Labour’s policy on this issue is and you’re just making it up as you go along.

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More calm down dear? Wow. Nice.

SutWytTi · 30/12/2023 09:48

CrispsandCheeseSandwich · 30/12/2023 09:33

If Reform are even in discussions it would be a sign they have no vaguely decent candidates available at all. Why would any party want to stand the very candidate the electorate in that constituency have just voted to remove??

I can easily believe they have no decent candidates. But also you only need 10% of the electorate to call for a by-election in a recall petition, and I imagine the 13% who voted to kick Peter Bone out are perhaps not the people likely to vote Reform in the first place. Bone got 65% of the vote in the last election.

I guess we will see what vote he achieves if he stands, but I would expect some of those who voted to get rid of him to be people who had voted for him. Many decent Tory voters don't support bad behaviour of the type Bone has been accused of.

For Reform, I would consider this to be a bad move brand-wise.

Regarding the % of vote Bone got, I would discount 2019 - that was the Corbyn/Brexit election, many Tories in safe seats acheived additional vote share as the Labour vote fell away in those seats. So looking at 2017, Bone got 57% of the vote. In 1992 the pre-Bone Tory got 53% of the vote. Personal votes are often overstated. But I do not know enough about the demographics in the seat 1992-2017 to make any comment on whether those results are typical or atypical.

But we will see! I am always interested in by-elections.

Desecratedcoconut · 30/12/2023 09:49

jgw1 · 30/12/2023 09:47

No difference in quality of life, will be a significant improvement on the past 13 years where the government has consistently eroded most people's quality of life.

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That's what you want women to vote for, to give up material reality for, not even five pieces of silver - just for everything to stay the same?