If there was a GE today who would you vote for?

[87SPD]

Bit cheeky but I’m curious to see if there are genuinely any Tory voters out there at all following another disastrous week for Rishi Sunak.

So who would get your vote?

I‘ll go first, I would vote Labour. As much as I would love to hear more on policy and a firm grittiness from them, I do understand that Keir Starmer is doing the best he can, in that he can’t alienate a large proportion of the electorate so needs to toe the line.

Falls in primary school numbers tend to occur about 4 years after a fall in birth rate in that area, they really aren't that much of a surprise. Falls in secondary school numbers tend to happen about 11 years after a fall in birth rate.

Labour - best of a bad bunch.

It’s like looking in a mirror

This thread has reminded me of the meme about how only the stupid or the rich vote Tory and people should check their bank balance to see which they are.

I have just been reading about some predictions for the next General Election.
On the subject of woman I thought this interesting.
Current polling suggests that the Tory party will secure a lower share of the vote than at any time since universal suffrage.

@jgw1 none of the “Giliad” posters want to answer the question about what “the only party that knows what a woman is” have done for women’s rights or to stop the erosion of their rights in the last 13 years. I have never got a straight answer out of them yet.

questioning their narrative is verboten on mn. I’ve given up. And tbh It’s the thing that will drive me away from mn. I am so sick of them shutting everyone down with this rhetoric.

Oh I see, so Labour are only putting VAT on private schools where there has been a decrease in birth rate in that area…fantastic!!! Maybe I will vote for them then!!!

Can you send me Labour’s plan of how they are going to accommodate children leaving the private sector into the state school system and how much this is going to cost versus the extra VAT that will be generated?

But if Labour get in … then if you think things are going to change for the better then you are going to very disappointed. Not necessarily - the size of the pie might not change by that much in the near term, but how it’s shared out will.

And to the school fee posters 🤦‍♀️ I’m sure the state system will cope with the tiny percentage of children on scholarships whose parents decide to pull them out.

And Labour (or Lib Dem if that’s better tactically).

Many private schools increased fees by over 10% this year, and there hasn't been an exodus of pupils, so what makes you think paying VAT on school fees would have a different effect?

Gender Pay Gap Regulations. They certainly had an impact on my previous employer.

You are right, they haven't stopped the erosion of rights, and they are guilty of allowing organisations like Stonewall far too much access and influence on public services and the creep of anti woman language as a result

But they at least recognise that it is not possible for a woman to have a penis, and aren't actively promising to dial back women's rights by allowing gender identity to become more important than/equal to biological sex without any checks and balances. Personally I don't think self ID should be allowed as it is just open for abuse by those who will use it in bad faith

Hence not being able to vote this time round, the tories are scum but I just don't identify (see what I did there 😉) with the position of the other parties on a matter that is a dealbreaker for me

Politically and economically I think we are fast approaching the end game.

Taxation is at its highest since 1950s and Government debt is at the highest since 1960s. Inflation at its highest since 1981. Currently the third biggest item on Government spending after NHS and Social welfare (pensions) is debt interest payments which are more than what is spent on education.

amp.theguardian.com/business/2023/jun/21/uk-government-debt-above-100-per-cent-of-gdp-first-time-since-1961

www.spectator.co.uk/tag/debt/

Public services are either actually getting worse or are perceived to be getting worse. No matter how much money is thrown at the NHS I doubt it would result in any real improvement.

The problem I see is that voters will always vote for parties that promise them more stuff without ever being truthful about where the money is coming from. And if they do say then it's some generalised bollocks about cutting waste or growing the economy or taxing the rich.

When all this fails then debt simply increases again. It reminds me of the quote from Alexander Fraser Tytler from early 1800s that :

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, "

Which ones @Dibblydoodahdah? the ones brought in under the equalities act by the last Labour government in 2010? And yet Here we are, after 13 years under Tory rule with a wider gender pay gap than our EU equivalents, with no extra layer of EU protection either. Great. That’s a great example of this government’s record on women’s rights eh?

@AnonAnonandAriston and that “recognition” (which in effect has simply been a “look the other way la la la policy) has, as you say, meant fuck all for women. So what’s your point?

Yes I admit Tories haven’t helped the situation but at least they haven’t enshrined it in law and kiboshed women completely like the left wing parties have promised and other governments globally have done without a blink.

A vote for labour, Lib Dem or green completely ends any safety or dignity for women. At least now we can still debate it and win in the courts. Vote left wing and we are stuffed.

It’s an existential matter. If men can be women we have no recourse or protection in law or in society. Life then becomes very dangerous for girls and women and once that becomes enshrined in law it’s the devils own job to reverse it. I can’t believe any woman would vote for a party that is going to reduce her to a crude stereotype without protection from male privilege and all that entails.

Because it’s cumulative and some
parents at my DC’s school are openly saying now that they cannot afford any more. Ours went up 5% this year. 20% is a lot more than that. Maybe if we’d not had huge increases in the cost of living people would have been able to weather the storm. Lots of kids in my DS’ year are taking the 11+ for the nearby super selective grammars, many more than usual. Most pupils usually stay on for seniors as it’s an all through school.

No it hasn't so far but my view is that it will get a million times worse if we have a government who are actively pushing the agenda of the TRAs.

Of course you are free to disagree (but maybe we won't be able to have this conversation if the TRAs have their way - because threats of bodily harm will probably be seen as a suitable punishment for wrongthink....)

Well I'm delighted for you that all is well in your rich little bubble while people are using food banks, child poverty is at unprecedented levels and families cannot make ends meet.
Public services were functioning well and the NHS was the number one rated healthcare system in the world in 2010. It's now ranked at the bottom of comparisons with similar countries. As for Education, 40,000 teachers left last year and only 50% of the places for recruits needed for training have been filled. School buildings are literally collapsing as Michael Gove scrapped the money earmarked for their rebuilding and repair in 2010. The police force is on its knees and only 5% of crime is solved. It is laughable that anyone could not see how public services have been utterly destroyed during this government's tenure. Any one of us who works in them will tell you that.

The Regulations were introduced in 2017. That’s seven years after Labour left power. The EU are introducing very similar regulations but it will take up to another three years for them to be implemented across the EU (i.e. 10 years after the UK).

Sorry to be dim but can someone explain why you spoil your vote please.

@DumpedByText Because then they can come onto the internet to be performative. It's not you that's dim.

From your other thread you're not a middle income household.

Because you don't want to vote for any of the candidates, but equally don't want to not go to the ballot box and allow them to just consider it a low turn out due to 'voter apathy'. I wish they had a 'none of the above' box

My brain is engaged thanks

The VAT on school fees would be problematic for me. Along with many Labour policies.

Im not stupid, selfish or all the other names us non-lefties are being called. I'm just allowed an opinion and a vote.

@AnonAnonandAriston you have been measured and reasonable on this thread. But there is only one view that usually gets shut down on mn and that anyone who opposes the vociferous pack on the feminism boards (which I have had to hide because of the one track single issue thinking on there). It really is doing mn a disservice and giving us all a bad name. I’m fed up of it. And this Thread is a case in point. No chance of any debate on any other subject before the deafening chorus of “only party who knows that a woman is” comes to, ironically, shut down a bunch a women discussing politics.