The Westminster Arms

[DustyDiamond]

Shiny new thread 😍😍

The Westminster Arms:
A non-partisan politics pub-thread for varied political chit-chat & other such stuff

Cheers all 🍷

Morning Lily, just doing my usual catch up before work. Thanks for the tasty breakfast (or should that be proukfast?) 😊

Have a good day everyone!

Morning all, what I would want for breakfast most of all is consensus. I fundamentally agree with this here:

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/feb/04/we-must-respond-to-brexit-with-more-than-yelling

However a crucial ingredient for consensus is that it takes TWO...
And I don't think Johnson is interested in that particular dish.

I fundamentally agree with this here

So do I, Songs. I always felt that many people had logical and rational reasons for voting Remain, just as I did for voting Leave. The extremism exhibited by some on both sides was, and still is, unedifying. However, those days are done, gone, in the past (or should be).

However a crucial ingredient for consensus is that it takes TWO...

Unarguable. An agreement that works equally well for the UK and the EU would be just fine by me.

And I don't think Johnson is interested in that particular dish.

We don't know that yet. There is a lot of posturing and positioning going on with both sides. Let's wait for all the noise to die down and see what** emerges.

Morning, Greenish.

Another reminder that this is not the Brexit Arms, this is not the Brexit board, this is not the go-to thread for when one feels an urge to refight the battles of last decade.

If people want a Brexit bunfight then start a thread of your own, on the dedicated Brexit board 🤷🏻‍♀️

Posting things like 'The Partisan Arms' - in the same vein as 'The Fetid Arms' - is yet another pathetic little attempt at creating a divide & is boring.
As is continually having a pop at posters on here because you don't like the way they voted 🙄

As has been repeated ad infinitum by many posters on here, including me: if posters engage in good faith, then count me in. If you're here to do nothing other than goad & provoke then expect to be ignored and reported 🤷🏻‍♀️

I agree that there needs to be consensus Songs.
Not groupthink or slavish allegiance to one's 'side' or indeed indulging in the application of lazy stereotyping to the 'other side', but at the most basic level - consensus amongst ordinary individuals that endlessly indulging in circular (and redundant) arguments is regressive & tedious.

I voted Tory, I voted Leave.
Those battles are in the past.

I am now, yet again, just a fickle individual who's vote is up for grabs.

I like BJ, I support Brexit, I have views on many politicians & policies.
My views are mine alone & do not represent anyone other than me.

I care about the Labour leadership because I want a credible opposition & an actual choice in the next election.

I care about the Brexit negotiations because I believe Brexit was about freedom & sovereignty & I don't want to see that compromised.

I post "tired old memes {and} terrible photoshop stuff" because I find them funny - they amuse me.
If you want a thread with no shit memes or banal chat, then there is a very simple solution: hide this one, and start your own.

If posters find this thread so "cringe inducing" or so much of a "closed shop" that they cannot bring themselves to do anything other than goad or provoke in an attempt to belittle others & derail the (usually quite friendly) thread - then there is a very simple solution: hide the thread.

I am beyond bored of the same old bullshit Brexit bunfights - it's why we moved off the Brexit Board, and why I never go near the place now.

I welcome all posters to this thread, but I have zero time for agitators.

Morning btw

Bloody well said Dusty. I hope Mumsnet are reading that.

I will no longer be forced to define myself or my character, by a vote I made in 2016. That fight is done. It’s ended. Move on elsewhere (Brexit Section) if you are just coming here to pick a fight. It’s embarrassingly churlish and tiresome. This is NOT a brexit thread. Discussing it as part of politics is one thing, but to deliberately seek us out because you once saw us post in another part of Mumsnet about a democratic choice you happen to disagree with is bang out of order. And reflects way more on your characters than the characters of the regular posters here, that you appear to regard with such frothing contempt and disdain.

Arkadas

No, I don't expect people to agree with me but I do expect people, posting on a Politics thread, to show some genuine interest in Politics and, in particular, show some awareness of the dangerous type of Politics that 'Boris' and Cummings represent.

Either we have a free press, or we don't

Precisely. And if we don't, it's something that everyone of every political persuasion, should be very concerned about.

SongsofExperience seems to manage to hold a different perspective and disagree with others without being rude, mocking and goady. It’s clearly possible isn’t it?

Thanks by the way songs.

Morning All,

Nice breakfast as usual Singing. X

Morning, Epic and Dusty.

Yes, I quite liked being able to engage positively with Songs. It's a refreshing perspective and such a change from the boring repetition we endure from those with a strictly limited repertoire.

Returning to the spirit of the thread, Our Becky is upping her game. Well, sort of.

According to PoliticsHome:

^“Rebecca Long-Bailey has taken a thinly-veiled swipe at Jeremy Corbyn's leadership of Labour as she said "mismanagement and a bad organisational culture" had played a part in its election drubbing.

The Labour leadership hopeful vowed to "professionalise" the party if she takes on the top job.

And, in what will be seen as a dig at cronyism under the current set-up, the Shadow Business Secretary said "promotions will be based on what you know, not who you know" under her leadership.”^

Hmm, mismanagement, bad organisational culture, cronyism, lack of professionalism. Aren’t they direct results of a failure of effective leadership?

Apparently not. Our Becky, remember, gave Jezza 10/10 for leadership. Clearly when all these organisational failures took place on his watch, he was once again “present but not involved”. However, she has to please both Momentum and erstwhile Labour supporters - increasingly mutually exclusive groups - and that's a tough balancing act.

Now, would someone please update me on the current topic, stepping around the constant de-railing is very disorienting. 🙄😂🤦🏻‍♀️

Oops! Cross post there singing!

I read your mind, Epic

Well, great minds and all that! 😉

Oh, and with all of yesterday’s nonsense, I didn’t get to congratulate @Parker231 DD.

Congrats! What amazing news!!! 🎉🎉🎉

Happy for anyone to explain to me how discussing political issues, on a politics thread is 'derailing'?

Also, on the issue of holding the government to account - that isn't just the job of the Official Opposition, it's the valuable duty of all citizens not to blindly follow, turn deaf ears to obvious warnings and attack the messengers, rather than the culprits.

I grew up in a bilingual country, as you know, Epic, so having had the benefit of lessons in both French and English at public school (don't get excited, anyone, it was a Canadian "public" school, which just means state primary school), gave me a real head start with grasping the gist of other Romance languages. However, Parker's DD must speak at least four languages well, possibly more, and that's a real achievement.

I'm just wondering whether the teaching of languages such as Mandarin will start taking off again as we become Global Britain.

arse you say you expect everyone to show awareness of the dangerous type of politics that Boris and Cummings represent.

I think that's something open to question. There are those who don't see it as dangerous but are actively welcoming a shake up of the established order (the BBC, the lobby, the civil service, cabinet discipline, probably the Lords next). There are those who - as I said yesterday - decided that the alternatives at the last election were worse and held their nose to vote conservative. And there are those who are horrified that this brand of conservatism has won power.

I do appreciate the anxiety about Cummings as an unelected power figure who definitely has a game plan that we only understand when he's outmanoeuvred his opponents. Reminds me of Peter mandelson and Alistair Campbell back in the day. There is a difference though, which is that Cummings has been blogging about his approach and vision for ages, so he's much less of an opaque power behind the throne; he's quite a visible one. I suppose that's progress of a sort.

I agree with you about the free press and its importance. I am taking my time trying to work out what is going on.

Please also note that this is the second or possibly even third time I have explicitly engaged in an open way with your posts, despite having posted regularly on all three Westminster arms threads, although we haven't yet managed any kind of to and fro conversation. Maybe this could be a good moment for that?

Well there you have it, Arse. Talking about politics (journalist issue from yesterday) on this politics thread is 'derailing'.
I read across a lot of the politics threads and only comment very occasionally, but it is very unusual to be accused of 'having a pop' because you don't agree with the general consensus.
Bellini has already pointed out how partisan this thread is, but apparently it's not them, it's us!

The Commission has a special summit on 17 Feb, as the budget has to be sorted by 20th. If it isn't, one can be imposed on member States and roughly divided up. There are 16+ sections in the budget and not one has been signed off as yet.

“I'm just wondering whether the teaching of languages such as Mandarin will start taking off again as we become Global Britain.”

I’m of the Dusty Language school. Barely a C in French and not much interest in foreign languages at that age. I wish that had been different to be honest, but alas, I knew better in the fog of youth... 🙄😂.

I’m not sure Mandarin would be one for me though, doesn’t it take 7 years to learn? 😱

Why do we not teach languages to toddlers and beyond. (Outside of expensive Montessori schools obvs) Let’s do it in school from the moment they start, like other countries. It makes so much more sense to begin develop the language centres of the brain, at a time when it really makes a significant difference. We are an embarrassment (generally) in this country when it comes to foreign languages and the solution really is very simple!

❌

Cross posted with you, Arkadas. I am engaging with the journalist question. (At the moment, I'm still trying to get my head around what is happening, and the extent to which it's a problem. One difficulty is that we've had so much "they're all LITERALLY fascists" frothing from various sections of the media over the last three years, when they didn't seem to be, to me, that it'll take me a bit of time to get beyond "boy who cried wolf" suspicion to work out whether it's an undermining of the free press or a shake up of the lobby system (or both).

I await that with interest Scary! It should be fascinating... 😬😂