The Westminster Arms

[DustyDiamond]

Shiny new thread 😍😍

The Westminster Arms:
A non-partisan politics pub-thread for varied political chit-chat & other such stuff

Cheers all 🍷

Totally agree about the fishing Ommm

This is a golden opportunity for the fishing industry to revive & by extension the local areas will begin to thrive again also

My goodness compared to the descriptions of trump and the Boris and the Farage across mumsnet these are gentle musings...

Parker I totally disagree and even the phrase... Boris messing about at qt..

I think any labour mp who doesn't address our speak to Boris as an equal rather than a naughty boy will just tank the labour party even further.

Oh and the Boris Bog Brush has returned on my mumsnet.

“Totally agree about the fishing Ommm

This is a golden opportunity for the fishing industry to revive & by extension the local areas will begin to thrive again also”

Ditto! Great points!

He has the precision you would expect of a lawyer, Parker, and that's no bad thing. He won't accept generalities and he will keep drilling down to get an answer. Credible opposition is the best way to keep a government on its mettle and I do want to see Boris challenged on policy and detail, not on the sort of silly ad hominem attacks and counter-attacks that have bedevilled the HoC for the last four years.

I'm pleased you and I have something we can agree on.

And by extension us the citizens for being able to eat cheaper, nutritious healthy fish...

Well as long as its precision he does deploy.

I don't see any precision being deployed in soul searching as to what went wrong.

I see a lost bewildered man who doesn't understand why Labour lost so badly.
It wasn't just corbyn.

What we need is mps across all parties from that red wall.

That's why I'm so anti Lady-Hyacinth-Tottington & Our Becky, Lily

They're utterly consumed by the Tory/BJ hatred & attacking the person/party
Rather than robustly challenging the policy/detail

#Static without doubt has qualities that I admire, but he's just blah
More of the same
Boring

That's why I back Lisa Nandy from the dire choices available - with a good, strong team behind her I think she'd be able to move the Labour Party forward (instead of constantly re-fighting the battles of the past)

Sorry to change the subject... just a thought I've been having since someone raised the point (might have been Singing?) that technically we're no longer "Leavers" now we're not part of the EU.

I'd prefer not to continue with that label for all sorts of reasons and just wondered if anyone has an alternative that doesn't have any connotations to the referendum at all?

Something that quite simply just recognises our new common standing, regardless of our political party leanings, as independents?

Apologies if I'm over thinking this - just tell me to shut up if I am

“I'd prefer not to continue with that label for all sorts of reasons and just wondered if anyone has an alternative that doesn't have any connotations to the referendum at all?”

British Citizens? Although it will probs be 30 seconds before an anti brexiter is along to tell me this is somehow offensive. 😂🙄

Oh sorry! Did you mean just for leavers? I meant to apply the British Citizen term across the divide. But I think I may have missed your point... 😬

Completely agree, Dusty. Lisa Nandy has the potential to be a very good leader but - and this is where I veer away from her a little - whoever is chosen as the next leader is going to have to find a way of reconciling a fractured party or preside over open warfare and eventual split. It's one or the other. The first would require sacrifice and supreme compromise from both sides of the party (and one side is not known for its willingness to compromise what it see as its ideological purity). IMO, the latter is more likely.

Either way, it won't be pretty and the leader, whoever it is, will - whether they like it or not - expend so much political capital that their public reputation will be battered beyond recognition.

It's the leader after the next who will matter. Out of the current bunch, I would like that to be Lisa Nandy - although it is perfectly possible that others might emerge as contenders in time. I just wouldn't want a promising political career cut short in a thankless task.

RLB's comment about how none of her friends voted Conservative - 'They wouldn’t tell me if they did because I’d be angry.' - is apparently now being passed off as a joke. She's not exactly known for her sense of humour. I don't think it was a joke. There's too much of the Laura Pidcock mindset about her. But it tells me that she is very much Continuity Jezza in that she's only happy in her bubble. That's not just bad for the Labour Party. It's bad for the country.

If a leadership candidate come forward and said, "I'm willing to work with the government from time to time to foster and push forward initiatives for the common good that are in line with Labour Party philosophy but equally, I hope to talk them round to some of our policies, ones I think have particular merit", that would be a huge step forward. The late Dame Tessa Jowell was famous for her ability to galvanise cross-party support. RLB isn't fit to tie her shoelaces.

Hi, Greenish, it was me and I was being flippant. Leavers and Remainers are technically redundant as terms now. Although some people are still fighting the same old battle

“Although some people are still fighting the same old battle smile”

I know, it’s almost like the last 4 years didn’t happen isn’t it?

“Tell me why you voted Brexit!!”
“Tell me how my life us going to be better!!”
“Don’t you care about humanity??!” Etc...

It’s like groundhog day. We’ve answered previously many times, over 3 years ago. I will no longer engage with the same old crap. They didn’t want the answers then, so they most certainly do not want them now. I’m moving forward, if they want to stay stuck that’s up to them, but I’m happy to wave them off when I leave the station.

😂Epic.

And then there's the classic, "Where is your evidence for....".

It's like being the perpetual defendant in the universal dock in a never-ending trial.

Here's an article that might cheer you up. It's by Dan Hodges, Labour royalty and diehard Remainer. I read it long after I posted my thoughts about disordered thinking.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7956945/DAN-HODGES-bitter-Remainers-rant-50p-coins-fruitcakes-loonies-now.html

I know... we'll be accused of jingoism whatever, I expect. It's just that the term Leaver has almost become an insult now - a byword for racist and I'm so tired of it.

We don't have to be backwards-looking like the 'Rejoiners'. The argument's over for us - in a way we're free from all that and it would be nice to ditch the old insult label.

.... in my dreams

“It's like being the perpetual defendant in the universal dock in a never-ending trial.”

Amen. Over it. In fact I was over it years ago. There were many well researched, cogent responses back then, by some very intelligent posters. What happened? They literally just ignored all the answers in threads on which they continually demanded these answers. It was actually laughable. Because the truth is, they didn’t actually care and they were never going to accept ANY answer, and to still be continuing that charade of bullshit, even to this day, is frankly hilarious. They just don’t see it at all, but I’m past caring whether they do or not. I’m 40, you only live once, I refuse to still be explaining myself until the day I die on this, and if they want to waste their entire lives pearl clutching over it...then all power to their elbow, but they can count me out!

“I know... we'll be accused of jingoism whatever, I expect. It's just that the term Leaver has almost become an insult now - a byword for racist and I'm so tired of it.”

You are SO right!

The candlelit vigils and tears made me 😳 tbh Lily, it was like Princess Diana on steroids, except not for a person, but a politicised trading platform. I honestly cannot fathom it, it’s utterly baffling! Of course I understand people disagreeing with leaving, but this overtly emotional, hysterical clap trap is just so cringe. But it comes back to the extremes on both sides I guess, for example I find the Tommy/football/EDL twats who attach themselves to brexit equally baffling.

Aren't we Remainers now and remainers are Rejoiners?

I'm clearing out my flat of lots of heavy stuff I should have thrown away a long time ago. It's a tad difficult with one hand on walking frame and other on item being dragged.

I would appreciate it if someone could pour some alcohol down my throat occasionally to keep me going.

Epic totally agree.

So many eloquent, carefully considered arguments for leaving across all aspects of leaving.

Mostly met with the grunts end boorish rebuttals with no grounds.

Still today we have comments that the flag is known as '' the butchers apron '' and Yet more threads asking 'please tell me genuinely how your life will get better' '

It's old news epic.
People need to take responsibility for themselves and their own research and how they absorb information.

I've said before I did look carefully at both arguments before I decided I would vote leave.

I was a leaver at heart but I wanted to make sure sure it was the right descion and I wasn't missing something I'd regret.

Esp thinking of my dc.

I could equally argue for the benefits of remaining and had the ref gone the way of remain I would have found the good in it.

When posters keep saying... Tell me why tell me what, it's so far from how I approach matters I've run out of patience with it. I did the research, you go and do it.

Arf at the vigils for politicised trading platform 😂😂

“I've said before I did look carefully at both arguments before I decided I would vote leave.”

Ditto, despite having been a Eurosceptic since I became politically aware in the late 90’s. I still did my research for this particular vote. And I came out leave, others came out remain. To this day, I remain utterly flummoxed as to why both positions were not acceptable ones to hold. I don’t hate remainers at all, they are just concerned citizens like me! I don’t think they are right or wrong, I don’t think I am right or wrong, just that we hold a different opinion on this singular matter.

Re Tommy Robinson, also completely agree, they only exist for friction and as someone said on the posts before ref night... As long as no equally troublesome dreadful left wing agitators go down to PS it will be fine ; after all Tommy's lot are not going to kick off agaisnt Anne Widcombe

😂😂

Boris is having none of it. His red lines (and these include fishing) really are red lines

'Boris' is having none of it? You mean he's saying he's having none of it but since everyone knows he's a liar that means nothing at all. Red lines mean nothing at all. Even really really red lines mean nothing at all to a liar and cheat such as him.

I fully expect the fishing industry to get a massive kick in the halibut when he sells them out. Of course, his followers will simply follow whatever the next directive is about who's to blame but it certainly won't be 'Boris'.