Why do working class vote for Torries?

[ArvidsDaddy]

Apologies for being provocative. If what it said in the news is to be believed, I am puzzled by why the traditional Labour voters in the North (and South) would vote for the Torries? It is a bit like Turkeys voting for Christmas, both in the election and the Brexit vote. Lack of education? Lack of self-confidence? Lack of empathy?

I sense a feeling that some Labour policies could be considered not doing enough for ordinary working people or even targeting/punishing them. Is that true or is that "fake news" perptuated by the Pinocchio Tories?

So where does the money go when contracts go to companies like Specsavers? They must have shareholders so a certain percentage will go there rather than back into the organisation.

I've also worked at organisations where public money (from schools, councils etc) goes to the private business and I was always uncomfortable that there was profit making involved. I've seen how the culture changes and money slowly becomes the motivator.

I don't see why privatisation is seen as the only solution to making the NHS more efficient, why would being publicly funded and not offering contracts to businesses prevent it being reformed? I do realise it needs reforming, I just think it can be done while remaining state owned and not for profit.

I do realise it needs reforming, I just think it can be done while remaining state owned and not for profit.

It's needed reforming for at least a couple of decades. All we get is the vested interests re-arranging the deckchairs on the titanic. It's been one re-organisation after another, most of which seem to make things worse rather than better.

The specsavers example shows how a relatively simple thing which is made complicated/costly/wasteful by outdated NHS procedures can be done so much quicker/efficiently by the private sector. Even with the profit element for shareholders, it's still massively cheaper for the NHS to sub-contract it than do it in-house.

Don't forget most GP surgeries, dentists, opticians, etc are private businesses sub-contracted by the NHS to provide NHS services, and have been since the NHS was first created.

The British working class were first divided and conquered back in the 80's, when some of them were able to buy their council houses and some were not. Some were able to get into the grammar school, and some were not. Basic psychology, divide the group and make one believe they are superior to the other and see what happens.

TV Shows like Benefits Street and Jeremy Kyle have a lot to answer for here too. Many working class Tory voters will say that they have seen people who choose to "scrounge benefits" as a lifestyle choice or deliberately do nothing to "better themselves". But I wonder how often they come across the millionaires and billionaires who hardly pay any tax? The portfolio landlords who profit from the housing benefit their tenants are claiming rather than their labour?

Tax avoidance costs the country many, many billions more than benefit fraud. Rich corporations are subsidised by our government to a huge degree. But it's easier to hate "that cow down the road with 6 kids and a widescreen telly, who sits on her arse all day smoking fags" then say Vodafone or the people who loaded Thomas Cook with massive debts and walked away with millions.

I heard a fitting phrase a few months ago, "righteousness porn". It just happens that Benefits Street and Jeremy Kyle is more accessible, entertaining righteousness porn than politicians selling off things that belong to you, like the Royal Mail, to their mates on the cheap. It used to be religion indoctrinating a "protestant work ethic", but now it's a different sort of righteousness driven by the media.

One of the biggest problems I see on MN is people being put into ‘neat little boxes’ based on political view and Leave/Remain as if everyone’s entire lives can be categorised on one of about 4 ways. It’s just not that simple. People of all social classes, intelligence level, education level and enthnicity have opinions on hundreds of aspects of life, and often vote based on a ‘best fit’ model. If people only voted for a party whose policies they 100% agreed with then very view people would vote at all. Some people hold very extreme opinions on certain aspects of public life and may not vote for a party accordingly.

Someone may believe that the utilities should be in public ownership but that public sector pensions are far too generous.

Someone may be very pro-Remain but think that university tuition fees should not be abolished.

Someone may be very in favour of universal basic income but may be extremely anti-immigration and anti-FOM.

Someone may believe in increased support for the disabled but think that benefits should be capped otherwise.

Someone may believe that higher earners should be taxed at 50% but that women with babies should not be encouraged to return to work.

What I’ve learnt over many decades is that the world is full of c*nts. They span all political parties, all classes, all religions and all levels of wealth. Classifying people as good/bad, intelligent/thick, based on Labour/Conservative is lazy, ill-informed and self-defeating.

gotanygrapes17 anymore urban myths and legends about those on benefits for generations. I think you may benefit from a bit of investigation into what life is like these days.

@SweetSummerchild great post.

@lolaflores I work in a sector that deals with the families I mentioned day in day out. In fact, I thought it was largely urban myths until I started in this role. I can categorically say that it is not an urban myth. It is a recognised epidemic.

I don't have the answers to solve the problem- and I don't think anyone does right now. But it is what we should be striving for.

Sweet summer child great post

Tax avoidance for an individual is nearly impossible now. There is a lot of myths surrounding this but individuals and their advisers are heavily fined if the proceed with the advice or advise it. Offshore works until you bring it back to the UK... then you pay tax

On a company level there are lots of international trade/ tax deals to help avoid much more difficult to change without "shooting the country in the foot".

The thing about this country is we need to run it as a business, but there are elements which could improve regarding social care.

I know lots of working class military that vote Tory because they associate Tories with being pro military but don't bother to look into and understand what the Tories have done to the military over the last decade.

😂😂😂

The working class military that I know (me included) stopped voting Labour after the 97 election because Blair completely screwed us over on pay, manning levels & equipment

Even if the Tories are a teensy bit pro military it's an improvement on the last labour shitshow as far as forces are concerned
Indeed, since 2010 they at least tried to sort the shocking pay disparities introduced under Blair.

And a Corbyn Labour govt?!

He who has openly said he wants to see more cuts to the military, he who fucking hates the (british) military with a passion?!

Aye right! 😂😂😂

What I’ve learnt over many decades is that the world is full of c•nts. They span all political parties, all classes, all religions and all levels of wealth. Classifying people as good/bad, intelligent/thick, based on Labour/Conservative is lazy, ill-informed and self-defeating.

🙌🙌🙌

Fab post! (And love your username 😍)

Thanks Dusty!

Very well put! @user1497207191

It's interesting to listen to people who used to vote Tory but have discovered the realities of what that means and changed their minds.

100% agree

Oh I've just had a classic from someone I know.

'I'm voting Tory because I don't want to pay more tax'

He's not even a high rate tax payer 🙈

I'm voting Tory because I don't want to pay more tax

He's not even a high rate tax payer

Some people aspire to be more than they are right now. It’s how families, businesses, and economies prosper and grow. Shame you find that such a ridiculous idea.

Uh he's 50 years old @CendrillonSings but I don't expect you of all posters to come up with a sensible response 🙄

Some people aspire to be more than they are right now.

And some people are happy to let others think that Tory taxation policies benefit everyone when they don't, they benefit a very few.

And they are the people who are taking advantage. And they are the people who should hang their heads in shame.

Uh he's 50 years old @CendrillonSings but I don't expect you of all posters to come up with a sensible response

And your idea of a “sensible response” is that no one paying the basic rate should ever aspire to anything better and instead let those on the higher rate be taxed into the ground? Our economy would be fucked if we followed your “sensible” suggestions, so no thanks.

There are millionaires and billionaires in this country who hardly pay any tax. Maybe you should be concerned about them instead.

There are also millionaires and billionaires who pay a lot of tax. The bulk of the tax paid in this country is paid by about 1% of the people.
The Tories have reduced personal income tax in the last decade by increasing the personal allowances.
They have taken a lot of people out of income ax altogether.

Working class people work, the spin is Labour give your harmed earned cash to layabouts and Tories don't.
The truth is both parties have to support the welfare system.
But Tories grumble and inadvertently kill people to seem less tolerant, they also talk about immigration in a more provocative way.

Plus lots of people don't like Labour policies, take umbrage with the leader and see them as upper class dicks who believe theyre different from the stinky working class but hide that better because they pity them.

see them as upper class dicks who believe theyre different from the stinky working class but hide that better because they pity them.

Some don’t even hide it very well....

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/rochester-by-election-labour-mp-emily-thornberry-apologises-for-white-transit-van-and-england-flags-9874088.html

Sadly this is a false premise. This government is not for the ordinary person. I count myself in this and I am a higher earner and have been a business owner more than once. Because ordinary people inflate themselves above other ordinary people we continue to be conned like this. The NHS is my biggest concern.

Because most people only listen to soundbites, headlines and propaganda they see online they believe the right wing owned media hype that Jeremy Corbyn is going to come after their hard earned cash. Not only this they believe that he will drive their employers out of business by raising taxes and turn us into a communist state.

Meanwhile Boris Johnson is going to take the country to economic armageddon while simultaneously selling off the NHS and giving more tax cuts to corporations and his rich voters. He lies all day long but they want this not Corbyn.

It's shame Corbyn didn't realise he needed to work the media. Every other leader in recent years seems to have been aware of the need. Why did he think he was exempt from the work to make sure his desired message got through to people? You know, doing politics.