Why do working class vote for Torries?

[ArvidsDaddy]

Apologies for being provocative. If what it said in the news is to be believed, I am puzzled by why the traditional Labour voters in the North (and South) would vote for the Torries? It is a bit like Turkeys voting for Christmas, both in the election and the Brexit vote. Lack of education? Lack of self-confidence? Lack of empathy?

Labour are a mess struggling to adapt to the 21st century. They’re not selling their message to low to mid level earners in new industries without trades unions. Corbyn is a divisive character with many traditional labour mps actively not supporting him.
I despair I really do.

If my local Facebook page is anything to go by, racism plays a huge part.

People? I wish we weren't so class obsessed in the first place. We're all people.

I think "underclass" just demonises people further and does nothing except perpetuate "us and them"

(For what it's worth, I'm enjoying having a civilised debate about it this, with no name calling etc so thank you)

@StarbucksSmarterSister

I respect your post- and think you have very valid views.

What I would dispute is that a gap between rich and poor is an absolute bad thing.

Of course, anyone with a reasonable mind would want everyone to prosper. I interpret a Labour government attempting to close the gap, not by encouraging and supporting people to do better, but by the richer being brought into line more with the poorer. Proposing lower thresholds for higher tax, garden tax etc etc.

@fromthefloorboardsup it probably would help to be less class obsessed! The purpose of my job is to bring people into mainstream society, so they realise what they have to offer and why they’re needed - that would be easier if there was less division in society, and obviously I’d never tell anyone they’re part of the underclass (I might get sacked lol) but it is a useful term to distinguish who we’re actually talking about, particularly in a benefits conversation.

As I’m swinging between Tory and labour constantly i can hardly start name calling 😂 I can’t even decide which side I’m on a lot of the time!

@posterdarceybussell I do agree with your post. It is more complicated than black and white or good and evil. However, it is just not possible - I am sure this would cause offence - if you are conscientious and kind - to vote for Tories under Johnson. It is not telling truths. It is mean. It is manipulative. It is plainly so.

Fair enough, I just think it's an ugly term!

@fromthefloorboardsup

I think we actually have a lot of the same views!
Of course your father should have been entitled to JSA, no one should question that. And someone should always be entitled to what you father was, in his position , under whatever government.

I am talking about families where both adults are long term unemployed, and there is very little pressure put on them to work. They continue to have large families, and the state are put under complete pressure to house them. They have never at any point "paid" in to the pot. There is no encouragement for their children to be any different. You may say I am judgmental, but I see this everyday in my job. And I see people better them self and make amazing transformations.

I would never want to see a child go without food, or clothing, shoes or warmth. But living in long term benefits should not be a viable option.

@fromthefloorboardsup what are your views on community service in exchange for income support/job seekers?

I am lucky I guess. But I also have started by having washing up jobs and ludicrously unsocial hours and have used the experience I gained in various fields to find the best job for me. Is it all luck? Maybe.

@Kungfupanda67

I am literally agreeing with everyone of your posts by the way. Are you my spirit animal?

@fromthefloorboardsup it’s not the nicest, no - I use it because it’s what was used when studying sociology, and haven’t really thought much about it to be honest.

I think it would be degrading to ask people to do community service in return for job seekers etc. Feels like a punishment for being out of work when there are many reasons you might be (and also ignores that looking for a job can be a full time job in itself sometimes). I like Labour's policy that benefits policy should include treating people respectfully.

I've worked hard but I consider myself lucky that I had the chance for an education and a a stable home to learn, and have therefore been able to get jobs.

I don't actually mind 1% of people abusing the system if it means 99% of the others who need it get help. I'd much rather people who earn billions were paying their fair share of tax, it's not like they're going to miss it!

I really don’t understand the class system, I’m a worker, I vote Tory, what’s the issue?

@ArvidsDaddy I actually think it's not possible to vote for them because they've become so completely ridiculous they're like a parody of themselves

@fromthefloorboardsup you think it would be degrading to exchange money for services?

No, community service. Which has implications of prisoners and punishment and doesn't give you a choice in what work you do (I assume).

I'm all for serving the community but I don't think you should force people to do it in exchange for support when they most need it.

Stockholm Syndrome. Or deference as we call it in this country.

Labour won't do me any good I suspect. As a well educated person in a low paid but responsible job in the private sector I can probably look forward to being taxed more so thwt working hours for those in the public sector can be reduced; I will effectively be on minimum wage as that rises but my rate doesn't; I can worry that labour would seek to tax me in some way for the home I have almost finished paying for out of taxed income after 25 years with no holidays etc. This might sound me me me but I am barely surviving anyway as a person who has no claim on benefits and the only earner in my household.

Labour does not seem to like the working working classes much.

If you're low paid you won't be taxed more. And which policy makes you think they'll take your house?

@Contraceptionismyfriend it would definitely be degrading to make a 50 year old man who has worked all his life and been made redundant do community service in exchange for £70 a week of job seekers allowance, yes.

The people who would be the targets of such a policy wouldn’t be affected, the long term disabled would be exempt (I strongly believe the majority of disabled people could do some work, as I said earlier), single mums (whether genuinely single or claiming their partner doesn’t live with them) wouldn’t be able to participate because of childcare etc etc

Why not? They're not going to be digging trenches.

Because do you want to know what's happening.
Loads and loads of people claiming job seekers book interviews to show their 'efforts' and then just don't Show up. It wastes hours of labour. It's frustrating and it pisses people off.

So protecting someone's ego would not be be try high on my addenda.

I've worked hard but I consider myself lucky that I had the chance for an education and a a stable home to learn

I was bloody lucky. I had a free university education. I'd never have gone otherwise.
Growing up in the circumstances I did would have left me terrified of getting into debt.

Also, fortunately my parents knew my education was more important than me getting a job at 16 in order to contribute to the household budget, no matter how needed. Unlike a friend of mine whose parents told her she had to do just that despite them having far more money than us.

@Contraceptionismyfriend I know this, I work in HR and get a lot of applications from people who obviously don't want the job we're advertising. But I do care about people's feelings and their egos and mental
health a lot more than the fact that some people game the system. The same way I believe in trusting people at work even though a few will try and slack off. I don't believe in punishing everyone because of a few people's actions.

know lots of working class military that vote Tory because they associate Tories with being pro military but don't bother to look into and understand what the Tories have done to the military over the last decade. Plus many point blank refuse to vote for Corbyn, again largely out of misunderstanding and ignorance.

Orange - I don’t think Corbyn will lift a finger to help the military. He hates them.

And I don't believe in telling someone that for the money they receive they must give back to the community is punishment.

Assisting to build school play ground equipment, revamping social hubs, skill sets could be utilised.

I know a lot of Ex military that will never vote Corbyn because of the IRA link. A lot of them served in NI.