Unwritten social codes in England

[user1494871340]

Sorry if this is posted in the wrong sub-forum, but I wasn't sure where to put it. I've been spending a lot of time in the UK for work recently (I'm from India) and I've become quite fascinated with pop social history and anthropology on English society.

I just read 'Watching the English' by Katie Fox and I was amused by the presence of strict class segregations in common vocabulary (sofa vs. couch, napkin vs. serviette etc). An American colleague and I recently discussed how bewildering the English class system is to us since it based on social rather than economic capital and often what would be considered glamorous in other cultures is looked down upon as gauche here.

I've generally found English people to be quite inscrutable, self-deprecating and reticent (compared to the Arabs and Americans whom I lived amongst earlier). So I was wondering if you could tell me what some other unwritten social codes in the UK are? If you've ever lived overseas, what were the important cultural differences you spotted? What are the unsaid rules/ customs/ morals that you think are specific to England? Thanks and sorry for such a frivolous thread!

Saying "I'm going to the toilet" is a social marker. Lavatory or loo is preferred.

Holding a knife and fork in the correct way... so that the index finger is in-line with the implement and thumbs to the side, as opposed to 'resting' between the thumb and index finger with thumbs up in the air (if that makes sense?) My parents are frightful snobs and will notice this immediately.

Elbows on tables also a no-no. Putting milk in a mug before tea or coffee... hmm, mine all seem to be food related

Also the flashier the car the more gauche the driver. Ditto pets/walking attire. Rich people tend to have old, reliable cars coated in fur from old labradors, and wear mucky wellies, whereas the nouveau riche have chi-chi little doggies and flash, sparkling cars.

Watch a few episodes of "keeping up appearances", if you can find them.

Some of it is mixed up with region, but my mum would look down on people who have tea/dinner rather than supper.

Starting to eat before everyone is seated and served vs waiting for everyone else before you tuck in

All good points x

IME any "markers" are less reliable nowadays thanks to the exposure to American tv and social media, so for instance I would say either sofa or couch (or occassionally settee) depending in which word came to mind first. Same with toilet/loo/bog.

However, I saying "ice-lolly" will just never feel natural to me. It will always be a "lolly-ice" no matter how far from my roots I am!

Sorry about the errant words in that post, autocorrect went a bit nuts.

"Saying "I'm going to the toilet" is a social marker. Lavatory or loo is preferred."

I live in a predominately middle class area surrounded by middle class people and naice school. Everyone here, without fail, says toilet. I feel very pretentious saying loo.

Other unwritten rules include having a desired accent, engaging with your community, not being flamboyant or loud and eccentric unless you are a pop star and participating in the class system is second nature, people look down on those they perceive to be lower class and up to those they see as a higher class. Being too intellectual is not welcomed either. IMO.

There's millions, most of which make no sense and you don't even realise till you live abroad.

Watching the English is a good place to start though.

Here's couple of mine that are typical English behaviour:

Don't invade my social space, ever. Please don't touch me

We are extremely self depreciating but actually think we're the best, really

Sarcasm is the highest form of humour

British people are very assertive, especially the women, compared to say Canadian women

Queueing, oh the queueing

I reckon the class system in Britain is even more complex than in India tbh

FWIW op you might get more responses to this thread in 'chat'

I think never talking about money (in relation to oneself) is quite English: e.g I don't know how much my sisters or brother-in-laws or friends earn. It would honestly be easier to talk to them about sex! The same with possessions, unless it's really cheap and then you are allowed to brag about it- so if someone compliments your bag you can boast that it only cost £5 from Primark- but you could never say it's Gucci and cost you £900. House prices and school fees it's ok to moan about, you just can't get too specific.

Good luck with that one!
I have been here 17 years and it took me years to really realise how far the class system is impregnating the whole english/British society.

You could add that its not allowed to say that snow is nice and that talking about the weather is the only way you can start talking to some you dont know yet (eg neighbourgh).
If you look closely, you will also notice that people dont mix up and there is a strong north/south divide (with people having no hesitation telling they would never date someone from 'up north')

Wanted to say, even after 17 years, I still don't really 'understand it'.
As a PP said, too many unwritten 'rules' that will vary according to where yoou are/your class/sub class etc.... that you can actually write them down.

Accents are also a big give away

yep I was going to say talking about money

I live in Canada and people have no issue talking about earnings, what they paid for things like cars or houses.

It took me a good while to get over myself

"British people are very assertive, especially the women, compared to say Canadian women "

Really> British women are mostly assertive in a passive aggressive way. Women from the US or Canada are much more direct and confident in my view.

In my opinion, Watching the English is spot on. I recognised pretty much everything in the book.

DH was disappointed to find out that he was no higher the Middle Middle, as he insists on coasters.

British people assertive???
Nope sorry.
The best line of action in britain is the PA way. You just ahve to look at threads on here where the OP starts to wonder what her friend means when she said xxx and did she actually mean yyy etc....

Oh, and the absolute basic rule is to avoid being pretentious. So, no showing off about money/houses/jobs/schools. Anything that breaks this rule is tacky. You are allowed to climb up the social class ladder, but quietly and without making a fuss about it.

These are all really great insights; please keep them coming! A lot of it is in line with 'Watching the English' but I'm a little surprised that appearing too intellectual is taboo- why is that?

Compared to other places I've lived in, the UK seems more intellectually curious to me - the celebrity status accorded to so many BBC historians and scientific presenters, the popularity of trivia shows like QI and University Challenge, the pub quizzes etc.

Well, I think almondbrew has highlighted an interesting issue: nearly everyone is, or thinks they are, 'middle class', these days. People who tell you how 'oh so very middle class they are ha ha' usually haven't been middle class for very long.
And of course, the people who were originally middle class still like to feel superior. So I would say, absolutely yes, the word indicators (like toilet/loo) are still a thing.
Someone also mentioned that eccentricity was frowned upon. This is true in lower-middle and middle-middle sort of circles, but the posher you get, the more eccentric the better.

I love that book!! The chapter about the weather is genius. I gave a copy to my best friend's husband when they married. (He's american)
I do tend to find that the people that try and label themselves try too hard to be something they are not.
PIL are aspirational and think they are middles, but their manners are absolutely shocking. They try and talk down to me.
I don't know where I fit. Grew up on a council estate, but I love the good manners my Grandmother taught me. I can hold my own with a site worker or a Lord and Lady (Used to have to talk to a L&L often. Proper old school. Absolutely lovely people, he would ride in the back of the roller and she'd drive. Tea from a flask and a quick doze before they would set off home again. )
I guess I'll always be WC though. I'm not really too worried about class. My car is filthy though so maybe I'm on the up!

I'm definitely WC.
I said "Proper old school"
That answers it!

Oh and, my previous comment about eccentricity applies to intellectualism, as well. It's great if you're higher up the social scale (or on TV) but I think the key to lower middle class life is that you have to not stand out.

I think it's fascinating how such a tiny and irrelevant sector of the population still exerts such disproportionate social control.

Currently watching The Crown and very little appears to have changed.

And something about your house not appearing as if it's been cleaned. Scruffy = MC
Immaculate = WC