Unwritten social codes in England

[user1494871340]

Sorry if this is posted in the wrong sub-forum, but I wasn't sure where to put it. I've been spending a lot of time in the UK for work recently (I'm from India) and I've become quite fascinated with pop social history and anthropology on English society.

I just read 'Watching the English' by Katie Fox and I was amused by the presence of strict class segregations in common vocabulary (sofa vs. couch, napkin vs. serviette etc). An American colleague and I recently discussed how bewildering the English class system is to us since it based on social rather than economic capital and often what would be considered glamorous in other cultures is looked down upon as gauche here.

I've generally found English people to be quite inscrutable, self-deprecating and reticent (compared to the Arabs and Americans whom I lived amongst earlier). So I was wondering if you could tell me what some other unwritten social codes in the UK are? If you've ever lived overseas, what were the important cultural differences you spotted? What are the unsaid rules/ customs/ morals that you think are specific to England? Thanks and sorry for such a frivolous thread!

I'm from Irish stock ( moved to England when I was 6). Mum is English/ Welsh and dad is Irish. I identify myself as working class. Dh also identified as working class. But ......... I have a career, a Labrador, a second home , an old but good car and live in a " naice" area.
Dh's family also partially identify as working class, partially as middle class. In their case it is because they are proud of working class roots.
In my case it's because dad is class blind- my parents were business owners and are now retired. Confusing isn't it

I think it's rare for anyone to fit neatly into a class anymore. Economic and educational status is often at odds with the traditions and values of a household. For example, working class and middle class people who have become millionaires, or upper class people who haven't been to uni and no longer have money. The rules of social interaction are blurred due to people marrying outside their class and raising children with a combination of values. Personally I don't fit anywhere.

MC - cup and saucer rather then a mug ? Fabric sofas instead of leather ? I will recognise them when I see them.
I agree with what Mattberryshair said.

My parents are lower MC and are quietly appalled by our leather sofa. They would only have fabric and now 4 years later I see their point and will buy fabric next time

One things that stands out for me about the MC is they tend to have a very binary view of things - there is right way to do something and everything else is just wrong, hence you can tell when you are in a predominately MC area because everything looks the same . WC and UC seem far more laid-back.

I'm from a lower middle class background, I was raised with lots of emphasis on conformity and doing things the 'right' way. Never draw attention to yourself, don't talk about money or be flashy. Always be clean and tidy (both in house and person) and wear appropriate clothing. I really don't like the pyjamas in the street thing or people wearing exercise clothes when they're not about to or have been exercising, and I'm sure it comes from my upbringing.

"One things that stands out for me about the MC is they tend to have a very binary view of things - there is right way to do something and everything else is just wrong, hence you can tell when you are in a predominately MC area because everything looks the same . WC and UC seem far more laid-back."

Which might explain why Brits are a drinking nation. Drinking alcohol is a major way of socialising and relaxing for MC people.

I say "I need a waz." Don't know what that says about my (lack of) class.

I can't abide all this conformity crap.

My Dad's neighbours were all discussing some people who were moving into their street and said "there are some very naice cars on the drive" (whilst standing next to my 16 year old rust bucket KA). Can't abide this sort of British nosey busy-body judgyness.

Does it happen in other countries, I wonder?

I say I'm going to the bathroom when I need a wee. No idea if that's posh or not!

Do read the Bill Bryson book, notes from a small island - very touching casual observation of Britain and its unique ways. Made me smile a lot - in fact I am going to read it again!

I don't think drinking is a class issue at all!

I have a foreign mother so the class thing totally bypassed me growing up. I have no idea what class I am or what I'm supposed to say or do. I don't think my dad ever mentioned class at all.

When I went to university I found people were very keen to pigeon hole me in the class they decided I was and I find it all very narrow minded and snobby/reverse snobby.

Being mc, i sometimes think i love my dc more for what they could be in the future than for what they are now .

"One things that stands out for me about the MC is they tend to have a very binary view of things - there is right way to do something and everything else is just wrong, hence you can tell when you are in a predominately MC area because everything looks the same . WC and UC seem far morE laid back

Actually thanks for that. This has been my experience where I live and you've just explained why I've never 'fitted in'.

All sorts of little giveaways that are only really understood by the UMC/UC. Everything from wedding invitations to the 'T'word (that is considered worse than the 'C'word). The type of cuff on a man's shirt, the colour your house is painted, the type of dog you own, your jewellery and make up, your shoes, whether you eat prawns and fruit with cutlery, the school you went to, the regiment you served in, the holidays you choose, your abilities at tennis/riding/ hockey/rugby/ fencing. There are so many indicators.

anti that's interesting.
I've asked my MIL where she would put my dcs (similar position than you) and she said that they were 'international'

Clearly they've absorbed some British ways but also so many non British ways that it's still impossible to put them in a category!

I'm Scottish. I've genuinely never noticed lavatory/toilet etc as a class thing, I don't know who says what.

But if you call your mum's mum Nana, you're working class.

British people are very assertive, especially the women, compared to say Canadian women

Another one somewhat open-mouthed at this!

The British are downright notorious for never coming out and saying what they mean. They will imply things, and be passive aggressive - fine if you're able to pick up on this, not so good if you're no good at reading between the lines.

British people - women especially - will seethe silently, rather than come out and address something (you see it on here all the time), and will freeze a person out rather than discuss an issue.

Obviously this is a mass generalisation - but then so is everything on this thread!

One set of parents bafflingly say 'just going through' and the other 'pennying' for using the loo.

Why use one layer of euphemism when two will do?

Grayson Perry's great on this subject, try watching this series - www.channel4.com/programmes/in-the-best-possible-taste-grayson-perry

People using the phrase "at the minute" vs. "at the moment".

The former is considered WC.

I recently overheard someone say she would feel uncomfortable moving to the new build estate (privately owned not council) in her town.

She said it would be too posh for her (in a lower mc job, above average salary).

Whereas others I know wouldn't live in new houses as they are 'lower class'.

Personally I think trainers are for the gym and feel odd if I wear them not exercising.

Independent schools are called private by mc people and public by uc people.

If uc people can't cope with their dcs they pay to send them to boarding school. If wc people can't cope with their dcs the state pays to send them to residential schools (which cost more than boarding).

Mc people have dusty bookshelves. Wc people have spotless minimalist homes.

BBC is mc, ITV wc.

Mc people don't watch soaps, towie, talent shows or Jeremy Kyle.

Mc kids expect to go to uni. Wc kids aspire to go.

Wc holidays are to haven/butlins turkey or lanzarote.

Mc pay more to go to Cornwall.

Wc meals are based around the carb-meals out are to wetherspoons.

Mc meals are based on the protein- meals out are to places that charge extra for carbs and veg.

Mc voted remain so their dcs can work abroad.

Wc voted leave so their dcs can work.

(Bit of oversimplification with these I know!)

I loved that book too, especially the stuff about introductions, i.e. not asking people what their name is directly, not being allowed to say what you do for a living but being allowed to give hints until someone guesses it - in my experience that is spot on even though it sounds ridiculous.

One thing I find is that people often are unclear on what constitutes middle class, as it is a very wide group. Some things people say are middle class - someone upthread said "scruffy" house rather than immaculate - might be true for Jilly Cooper middle class but not Hyacinth Bucket middle class.

Public schools are specific schools - eton, Harrow etc
Private schools are all the rest. Nothing to do with class other than that if you have a title you might find you have an edge getting your kid into a public school

"The British are downright notorious for never coming out and saying what they mean. They will imply things, and be passive aggressive - fine if you're able to pick up on this, not so good if you're no good at reading between the lines."

I think this is true, my FiL is a master at seething and letting you know with subtle body language just how very displeased he is. Instead of loud fishwife type of discussions MC people let you feel their angry energy, I find it quite awful tbh.

Hmmm...

My parents are not English, neither am I, I moved here when I was 4, have a British accent (generic south).

I think I get the British class system, but I'm never certain. According to the BBC class calculator I am "established middle class" despite not owning my own home. Actually I've changed my mind. I don't get it at all!