Genuine question for Tory voters

[Bluebeedee]

Really not asking this in a goady way- I just want to know if anyone has changed their mind over the last few days of TM refusing to do any interviews/debates. I don't think Rudd did anything positive for the Conservative party with her appearance on the debate the other night and what I have seen of TM, she seems like she might actually be having a bit of a breakdown?

downscaling accordingly

Such language means making teachers and teaching assistants redundant, increasing class sizes, cutting the curriculum, reducing pastoral support, asking for parental contributions and some schools are making the school day shorter.

Downscaling

Giraffe- your school can't be losing more than -1.5% on last year so perhaps your governors need to look at how they've managed their budgets against known school funding reductions over the past three years if it's having such a cataclysmic effect on your school staffing and resources next year?
As I made clear, I'm NOT supporting conservative policy - my vote is my own private matter but I'm just pointing out some facts in an area I happen to have some knowledge of.

I was taking it as read that anyone voting for a conservative government is, of course, voting for less spending on public services?!

Effic, actually I don't think that's the case. I am voting Conservative for several reasons. One is because I want a successful Brexit and I think the Tories are the only party committed to this (well, except UKIP) and two, because having seen the way the Labour party has operated over the last few years, and particularly the last year, I have lost all faith that they are either competent and united enough to govern or actually interested in equality, the concerns of working class people and all the values I had thought they represented.

If you think the tories are interested in equality or the concerns of the working class I think you will be horribly dissapointed!

Wrong trousers - fair enough! Apologies, i wasn't trying to put words in anyone else's mouth. People chose to vote for a myriad of reasons, I just meant that in general terms, conservative policy is generally 'smaller state' in its nature that's all. Again, apologies if it came across as me deciding why people are voting for a particular party.

It doesn't include sixth form funding cuts.

Cutting tax rates for the rich and corporations does not cut tax take from the rich. thie rich are paying a far higher burden of taxes than under a Labour government, even the 98% lot from the 70's.
There are small state conservatives who want to reduce the size of the state due to idealogical reasons and they hate May because she is not one of them.
May is cutting public spending because there is no extra money. For example, when corporate tax rates were 26% plus, companies moved profits overseas (perfectly legally) to reduce UK profitability. With 17% rates, companies are moving profits to the UK - hence increasing the corporate tax income we receive.
Don't confuse high tax rates with high tax income they are not the same to the rich and corporations which can easily move wealth/income around.
The only way to increase tax take and public spending is either borrow or tax ordinary families more - which is why the Labour party had such a low tax-free income band and removed the 10p rate.
The Tories understand this and spend the maximum we can raise.

Sorry Lottie it doesn't make a damn bit of difference to me. I don't subscribe to the view that more money = better in every case. We could throw the equivalent of the national debt at the NHS and it would still be inefficient and badly run in many places. There is nothing wrong in wanting money to be spent wisely - in fact it's the hallmark of a fiscally responsible government.

I had cancer in 2006 and was treated on the NHS at the height of Brown flinging tons of casino banking cash at it. Care was dreadful. Not enough staff. I lay all day in a mixed ward, rarely cleaned, with shared, dirty bathrooms and listened to the building work going on to construct a new entrance to the "Trust HQ" which included a £1 million fountain. It's actually revolting what much NHS management splashes the cash on. Anecdotal, but not that unusual. Its just Labour paying the piper in return for support.

Can't comment on state schools because DS is too young but based in this thread, it looks as though they let Abbott loose on the figures again. Bit of a dick move.

I also agree with Wrong - so many sanctimonious Labour voters on here. Honestly, Jezza will not come down on a white horse and make everything okay. And I don't need re-educating, thanks - I just don't agree with you.

Well the NHS has never been a perfect system and it never will be. There have always been areas where care is better or worse.

But right now it's being sold to Virgin Health Care and is set to get a whole lot worse. When that happens it's even more difficult to get appointments or even talk to anyone - you have to leave a message and nobody calls you back. If you thought things were bad in 2006 they're about to be a whole lot worse. I would suggest that in 5 years time there will be no such thing as health care that is free at the point of service.

I also don't agree that schools can perform as well if class sizes are getting bigger and TAs are being cut. It means that the children are receiving less input - that's a fact. I'm very glad not to be in the position of having a preschooler - my children are all older.

When have I said that JC would be able to she everything ok? If you read my posts I've said we need a coalition rather than any one of the parties currently on offer.

Make*

Effic No offence taken I just wanted to put an alternative viewpoint. I think we are in quite strange times, politically. Two years ago I never would have believed that I would be voting Tory and that I would be so thoroughly disillusioned with the Labour party. A few months ago many people were predicting the end of the Labour party and I was kind of hoping that something a bit more progressive and genuinely liberal (ie without the identity politics nonsense and with a bit of class politics) but heyho, it seems everyone has forgotten about that now. It will be interesting times if Labour do win (I don't think they will) to see all the infighting and battles between the majority of the MPs, the membership, Momentum and Corbyn playing out whilst they are trying to run the country and lead us out of the EU

right now it's being sold to Virgin Health Care

Yes, you're right. The entire NHS is being flogged to Branson.

I agree that the NHS is shonky and that is why I would prefer a social insurance system like in France. If Tory policy helps to achieve that, I am all in favor. At the moment, the Tories are still pro-NHS (which makes a mockery of all the teeth gnashing on here really) albeit with funding at a sustainable level. I don't care if I have to co-pay or who provides the care as long as it is not shit (like now) and nobody goes without.

As for schools, my class of 35 was taught in a portakabin at a state school and I ended up with a first in law. I am not too worried about class sizes round here as the schools are pretty well-run (and house values have gone up as a result - another Labour triumph for the masses!) Again, it's about so much more than flinging cash at schools.

A coalition would be a disaster in view of Brexit. If ever we needed decisive leadership and a lean parliament, it's now.

Roll your eyes all you like - it's happening. I think this is the problem. People have a head in sand attitude 'oh well it's always been there and it always will'. If you think the Tories are pro-NHS then you need to actually look at what they are doing. What they want is for the NHS to fail, they will then say it needs to end. I have quite a few friends who work within the NHS. They all say the situation is the worst it ever has been.

It's also ridiculous to say that because you got a law degree in adverse conditions then everyone else can. This is sadly a typical Tory view - I was fine so everyone else can be. I have two children in MS schools - one is a very academic straight A student and the other less so. The younger one needs TA support. Don't forget that children with SEN are also mainstreamed these days. They also need more support.

There is plenty of evidence that whether a class has 30 or 40 pupils makes no difference to education outcomes. The benefits come at class sizes of 15 or less and the problems at 45 or more. 30 is not a number based on any evidence at all.
The only party which has ever introduced charges for healthcare since 1945 are Labour (opticians, dentists and prescriptions). Over 50% of NHS spending goes to private companies since its very inception.

My DH works for the NHS and agrees with your friends. It's a basket case. It needs replacing with something better imo so it does not affect my vote either way. I prefer the French system anyway. I just don't share your faith that the Tories will actually do anything so drastic because the NHS is treated like a religion by so many people. Wrongly, imo.

I can't really comment on schools as I said earlier. Particularly SN as I have no experience of SN or TA's etc. I do think that education is about more than money - individuals need grit and determination to succeed and DC are never too young to learn this. I appreciate that's a bit too "tiger mom" for some, but that is my view.

Carol - where is your evidence that 15 or less is ideal? On threads where people who use private schools talk about ideal class sizes they usually say 20 is ideal.

Fewer teaching staff per child = less input for each child. It's not rocket science. And when there are children with SEN in these classes then it's even more of a problem since no government has ever wanted to meet their needs.

If it needs replacing with something better then what would that be?

What about people who can't afford healthcare or don't have it given to them via their jobs?

In the US if you have a baby who needs SCBU care then that can potentially run up a bill of £1 million.

There is plenty of evidence that whether a class has 30 or 40 pupils makes no difference to education outcomes

This is obvious bollocks.

Sorry to comment on a post that was made a long while back (I've only just seen this thread), but hahaha at comparing the Guardian to Pravda.

If you want to refer to bias in the press, I have to ask if you've glanced at the Daily Mail recently?

Lottie do you think people die for lack of healthcare in France or Germany (fully insured system)? Are we so parochial in our outlook that we think there is us and the USA and that's it? Because there are many different alternatives to deliver healthcare of which the US system is one. The left would have us believe those are the only options when that is palpable bollocks.

And finding the Guardian a tad left wing does not make me a Daily Mail poster girl. What an absolute non sequitur.

I don't know how the systems in France or Germany work.

I'm not completely closed to new ideas but I do think that the Conservative party is about looking out for the richest few. I have never seen any evidence of progressive policies from them.

I find it interesting that my parents always voted for Thatchers administration when they had a more narrow outlook on life. Now that they have a disabled granddaughter their views have changed considerably.

Not suggesting that you're a 'Daily Mail poster girl' - just mentioning that paper in light of your raising the issue of bias in the press by comparing the Guardian to Pravda.

I am not too worried about class sizes round here as the schools are pretty well-run

And how long will that last with heads and teachers quitting in droves?

I agree with young that it's not always about flinging money at things to improve them.