Trump (Part 5)

[claig]

Continuation of the discussion on all things Trump and the people's revolutions

'So hypocritical of you.'

Absolutely not. I agree with Farage, as does Trump.

Sorry, I should have read properly that they're only giving visa free travel. And reverting it if illegal immigration from those countries rises.

My point about hypocrisy in relation to the Ukraine still stands, though. No matter what Farage or Trump think. They're equally hypocritical.

2.8 million Bertrand. He lost by 2.8 million.

More needless provocation: Trump appoints hardliner as US ambassador to Israel, who will work out of the Jerusalem, not Tel Aviv where the US embassy has been located for decades.(The UN does not recognise Jerusalem a Israel's capital). The move is not expected to be popular with liberal Jews (and there are plenty of Jews who are critical of the most extreme actions of the Israel government btw) who he has called "worse than kapos".

www.politico.com/story/2016/12/trump-israel-ambassador-david-friedman-232717

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38337108

Friedman helped advise Trump during the campaign and has assisted him in bankruptcy proceedings in the past.

Because Trump cannot be bought. Sure.

Sorry, that was from the Politico link.

The US is going to be stretched pretty thin if it needs to battle with both China and the entire middle east. Though I guess if its going to join forces with Russia, that pretty much involves the whole world.

Don't be surprised if Islamic terrorist activity increases.
It's not just a matter of fighting ISIS. That's too simplistic. Muslim populations around Israel feel alienated and the settlement policy has been robbing them of more and more land. Israel, particularly under Netanyahu, keeps creating security belts only to install settlements in those areas, which then need further distance from the Muslim populations around.
It will go well for peace in the region.

There's never any middle ground with Trump and some of his supporters is there?
It's portrayed as a binary choice between fall out nuclear war with Russia, or lifting all sanctions and letting Putin do whatever he wants without consequence.
It's not a choice between being anti-Israel versus supporting whatever the hardliners in the Israeli government want to do either.
And before this gets thrown out there, criticising the actions of the Israeli government is not in itself anti-semitic.

The "worse than kapos" line is a typical tactic of hardliners and the far Right - anyone less extreme than us is a traitor.

Kitten, Trump wants to massively expand the military, if he carries on with this level of "diplomacy" it'll be kept busy. At least that will further reduce the unemployment statistics I suppose...

An interesting read on Exxon and Climate Change.

graphics.latimes.com/exxon-research/

They were keen on research about it (of course, as it could affect their own profits), until they realised green house gases (and particularly CO2) were a major culprit, which could affect their profits. From that point forward, they have funded "research" and activities towards doubting human influence on climate change, as well as climate change itself.

"From 1998 to 2005, Exxon contributed almost $16 million to at least 43 organizations to wage a campaign raising questions about climate change, according to the Union of Concerned Scientists, an environmental activist group. Greenpeace has estimated that Exxon spent more than $30 million in that effort."
Not money into research to see what is going on (which would be unbiased), but specifically to raise questions.

"In the U.S., Exxon took out newspaper ads disparaging federal research into the effect of climate change on different areas of the U.S."

But, and for Climate Change doubters:
"In 2007, the company, for the first time since the early 1980s, publicly conceded that climate change was occurring and that it was in large part the result of the burning of fossil fuels ."

Sadly, the effects of the disinformation campaign have outlasted it.

But, while they were dismissing Climate Change predictions, they were incorporating them into their Arctic operations planning.
graphics.latimes.com/exxon-arctic/

So, our friend Rex, may or may not accept Climate Change, but from a company that is certainly set to profit from it. (And of which he owns a few shares - which may actually create a few problems) Fuck the rest of the globe.

graphics.latimes.com/exxon-arctic/

"Since 2012, Exxon Mobil and Imperial have held the rights to more than 1 million acres in the Beaufort Sea, for which they bid $1.7 billion in a joint venture with BP. Although the companies have not begun drilling, they requested a lease extension until 2028 from the Canadian government a few months ago. Exxon Mobil declined to comment on its plans there."

"Croasdale said the company could be “taking a gamble” the ice will break up soon, finally bringing about the day he predicted so long ago — when the costs would become low enough to make Arctic exploration economical."

Yes, it's hard to imagine a clearer example of corporate evil-doing than the way Exxon suppressed its own evidence on climate change and then spent millions on propaganda denying what they knew to be true.

I've posted about this on this thread before. I think Claig in response expressed approval of Exxon's actions, which is mind boggling but there we are.

An interesting piece here on the alignment of Exxon's interests with Russia's, and the "carbon bubble".

medium.com/@AlexSteffen/trump-putin-and-the-pipelines-to-nowhere-742d745ce8fd#.9f92y4iwd

Not as serious as climate change, obviously but that article did remind of one large economic burden we have coming: Decommissioning. I don't think it's something the wider public is very aware of, but it is a significant cost that is coming, and it is probable that some of the costs will be passed onto the UK government. Especially if oil firms go out of business (or the bubble pops as per that article). It is very difficult to estimate exactly how large the costs will be, and therefore hard for companies to set aside enough funds to cover it. Expect to see this hit the news more in a few years, along with some legal battles over liabilities.

It isn't. It just acknowledges that they fear or dislike something. You might be an arachnophobic, or agoraphobic, or anything -phobic

What a ridiculous statement. You dont get nuance, do you? Referring to the Tatchell piece, it is not about fearing or even disliking. It is about not approving for a variety of reasons. There is no phobia.

People are free to dislike gay people. I am also free to dislike people who hold those views. Clear yet?

No it is not clear, because you're another one who does not understand freedom to believe something diferent to mainstream. Tatchell was making the point about some people who do not approve of homosexuality; not are in fear or hate of it. Got it?

There is no phobe suffix to a difference of opinion, except those who demand totalitarian views on everything now use phobe as an insult.

Strange, I never noticed you supporting Obama, Southall

I did support Obama, but that was 8 yrs ago and I discovered MN only this January.

You won't find liberals upholding the cultural values that lead to FGM

They do not uphold those values, but they allow them to flourish because it means stepping on the toes of some nationalities. In effect, some libs conspire with the continuation of that particular practice and hope that it will die out. In fact, it continues to be popular in private consulting rooms.

If you want to be racist, say so, you don't actually have to quote the words you want to use

I find Deepan and a few others desperately racist, because they are OBSESSED with colour. I am Indian, born here, and your suppressed dislike is quite wearing actually. You go on and on about racism, when in fact it is you who see colour everywhere. It is a known fact that the right-on people (like you) with the "right" credentials, mimicking all the right things to say will at some stage reveal themselves to be the most racist of all.

southall, there is no point because they all believe the mainstream media

southall

I think there is something in what you are saying, and i agree with trumps comments. I Have never understood why all the injections have to be done at the same time. I think its too much for their little bodies

But i also agree that this probably isnt the place to talk about it so i will shut up now

I Have never understood why all the injections have to be done at the same time

Blair said, or insinuated, that it was cost-effective to give 3 vaccines at the same time. This was not being done in EU, maybe it is now. If you recall, some parents bought single vaccines from France and Holland. When Blair's youngest was due to receive MMR, the press asked him if young Leo had been given the triple, and Blair declined to comment.

"What a ridiculous statement. You dont get nuance, do you? Referring to the Tatchell piece, it is not about fearing or even disliking. It is about not approving for a variety of reasons. There is no phobia."

So you don't approve of it but you like it?

I do understand the freedom to believe something different to mainstream. You just don't seem to understand that's it's a two way street.
I might think it's irrational to disapprove of gay people, but I'm not going to stop people believing that.
I might disapprove of people who disapprove of gay people, and you may think that's irrational but you can't stop me.

You are free to disapprove of gay people if you want to - it's not illegal.
What do you think "freedom of belief" means? The freedom to think whatever you want without other people having an opinion on your beliefs?

So you don't approve of it but you like it?

This is not even English ..... What is IT?

"
No it is not clear, because you're another one who does not understand freedom to believe something diferent to mainstream."

You absolutely have the right to disapprove of what you like. And I absolutely have the right to give a name to that disapproval. You can still believe it, express it, discuss it.