Trump (Part 4)

[claig]

Continuing discussion of the Trumpquake and populist rebellions

Trump's cabinet is shaping up nicely, isn't it? I wouldn't be surprised if he appoints Voldemort next...

Not sure he can appoint Voldemort

That would explain why they've never been seen together!

That comment about diesel sort of agrees with what I was going to reply about VW. It's mostly a case of corporate greed, rather than science gone wrong

So how is one meant to know when it's genuine science as opposed to science with a dash of corporate greed?

In the same way that current so-called 'populist' trends are dismantling MSM and politicians, so too are they doing the same thing to science. People are demanding greater transparency and clearer answers to certain questions. Of the MSM, they ask - 'why do journalists refer to bearded men as children?' and 'why did MSM sources not report for three days the Cologne mass sexual assaults last New Year's Eve?'. Of science, they ask - 'why do car manufacture scientists and climate change labs falsify their data?', and of politicians, they ask - why did Hillary accept personal millions from SA/Qatar?

Trump is a massive part of all of this. As long as these questions are not answered, people will continue voting for politicians like Trump, spinning the Guardian with their 'right back at you' pieces, feeling disgusted at the lack of proper sanctions for lying car manufacturers and not believing climate change science. I am utterly amazed that some people on these threads don't seem to feel angry about the above or are prepared to overlook it, instead lodging their anger solely with Trump (and his personality).

Out of everything I've read about this, Hillary-supporting Michael Moore is the only person who hit nail on head. His article remains a stand-out piece among the rest of the flannel, the key point being that you will get back what you dish out.

Disturbing what has become of Amnesty International. It used to be a reasonably well-balance organisation, but now they seem to be mostly anti-West. Even Salman Rushdie has called them "morally bankrupt". Ooer, what's going on?

 Amnesty sponsored a rally in Brussels, where Islamist speakers celebrated the 9/11 attacks, denied the Holocaust and demonized gays and Jews.
 It seems that Amnesty turned its back on the battle of human rights in favor of a grotesque anti-Western bias. The Economist accused Amnesty of "reserving more pages to human rights abuses in Britain and the United States than in Belarus and Saudi Arabia."
 Amnesty's secretary general compared Soviet forced-labor camps, where millions died of hunger, cold and executions, to a US military base where no prisoner has died, and which has prevented countless innocent civilians from being blown up.
 "Amnesty also charged Obama of "war crimes."
 Alan Dershowitz summarizes Amnesty's definition of Israel's "war crimes": "Whatever Israel does to defend its citizens."
 A report by NGO Monitor detailed Amnesty's "systematic flaws in the reporting of human rights abuses; limited understanding of armed conflict leading to erroneous claims and incorrect analysis; and violation of the universality of human rights, including a consistent institutionalized bias against Israel through double-standards." There are even Amnesty's officials who called the Jewish State "a scum state."

Interestingly no demonisation of IS.

A message from Al Gore:

"Dear Friends,
In every great struggle humanity has undertaken, the march towards progress has included both successes and setbacks. And the struggle to protect and save the Earth's ecological system is no exception.

Today, I am as optimistic and resolved as ever that we will solve the climate crisis. Our collective efforts are dependent not on politics or ideology — or elections — but on our commitment to each other, to the health of our planet and to a sustainable future for all.

We must – and will – continue to find hope and joy in our work that will define humanity for generations.
Last night President-elect Trump said he wanted to be a president for all Americans. In that spirit, I hope that he will work with the overwhelming majority of us who believe that the climate crisis is the greatest threat we face as a nation.

I wish him well in these efforts and intend to do everything I can to work with him and his administration to ensure that our nation remains a leader in the global effort to meet this challenge. Moreover, there is reason to believe that it is not naive or Pollyannaish to hope for more than what we fear.

We have already made great strides to solve the climate crisis all around the world. The work that has been done by civil society, businesses, investors, and governments at all levels will continue to be driven by the fact that solutions to the climate crisis are not just vital to our planet, but are vital to our economy. The market forces driving the transition to a sustainable economy simply will not be slowed.
Less than a year ago, when the historic Paris Agreement was reached, we knew that our journey was only beginning. We knew this work would not be easy – indeed, more would be required. Now we know that our work must be redoubled. Today, without regard to last night’s outcome, we must turn our focus to making the promises of the Paris Agreement a reality by embracing the forces that are already working to grow our economy and transform our energy future.
A sustainable future is in sight – but we cannot take it for granted. We must fight for the future we all believe in. Now, more than ever, our planet needs us — and I’m inspired by the knowledge that we’ll take the path forward together."

Al Gore
Founder and Chairman
The Climate Reality Project

"why do car manufacture scientists and climate change labs falsify their data?'": Large businesses try to cheat regulations for money, foumummy, hth.
As has already been pointed out, scientific research is actually already very transparent (not always easy to understand, but you wouldn't expect it to be).
And like I asked earlier- how certain do you have to be that climate change is false to not want to do anything about it?

And msm did report extensively on the cologne attacks (eventually). It is appalling that they were not quicker off the mark though.

And all those issues you listed will not be made better by Trump and the like - they will get much worse. You only have to look at the way he has conducted business in the past to see unbelievable corruption and lies, let alone the majority of his cabinet picks.

Southall I too have had reservations about Amnestys priorities at times, but I don't think it is a negative thing that the expectation of the US and Britain are higher than that of Belarus and Saudia arabia. We should hold ourselves to a higher standard. Amnesty International has fuck all influence over ISIS, who are not even a real state. I don't fully understand what your point is about how the failings of Amnesty International relates to Donald Trump.

Could you expand your opinion on the Al Gore message you posted? Did you think it was an endorsement?

" I hope that he will work with the overwhelming majority of us who believe that the climate crisis is the greatest threat we face as a nation. "
I hope that too, but I don't expect it.

What do you think of Scott Pruitt leading the environmental protection agency Southall?

Large businesses try to cheat regulations for money

That's fine then. If the data need to be falsified in order to subnavigate the regs, then that's not a problem. We'll just tell the public that the falsified data are true. No-one will know any different anyway.

"Interestingly no demonisation of IS"
I just googled "amnesty international isis" and it returned a large number of results from their website, (like this report: www.amnesty.org.uk/iraq-conflict-ISIS-Kurdistan ) so once again I'm not sure what you're on about Southall.

fourmummy, surely you can tell the difference between company employees falsifying data and the vast majority of scientists? As it happens I don't trust scientists employed directly by business as much as more independent ones anyway. And guess which category the majority of the 3% fall into?
This time the falsified data was uncovered and the scam exposed so "no-one will know any different anyway" is obviously a stupid statement to make.
If Trump and his friends had his way there'd be no regulations to avoid anyway....

Squishy - a certain Univ of East Anglia centre on climate change springs to mind. Any views?

Knowledge exchange, often in the form of consultancy work and spin-offs from univ departments are standard these days. Govt and businesses often jointly fund research. You must know this.

This time the falsified data was uncovered and the scam exposed

This time...

Also, any views on why the MSM refers to bearded men as 'children'?

Do you see my point?

That comment about diesel sort of agrees with what I was going to reply about VW. It's mostly a case of corporate greed, rather than science gone wrong

So how is one meant to know when it's genuine science as opposed to science with a dash of corporate greed?

Hmmm...
Maybe because it was a major corporation falsifying the results and not a research institution?

Not that scientists don't fake data.
It happens.
But it doesn't tend to happen on a generalised scale. Rivals are only too eager to undermine eachother, not participate in some world scale conspiracy. :)

I was reading earlier that it was Ivanka who pushed for the meetings with Al Gore and Leonardo Dicaprio. And that she's pushing for her maternity protection plans to go ahead.
Her heart seems in the right place. Or better than dad's. I just hope she can get through to him.

"Knowledge exchange, often in the form of consultancy work and spin-offs from univ departments are standard these days. Govt and businesses often jointly fund research." This is not even in the same league as being directly employed by a company. You must know this.

"Also, any views on why the MSM refers to bearded men as 'children'?"
Well you haven't answered most of my questions but...

The fact that some migrants have lied about their age doesn't mean that all Syrian children are actually adults. You won't see many photos of the youngest child refugees published in the tabloids because of laws protecting the privacy of vulnerable children.

I'll ask my question again - how certain do you have to be that climate change is false to not want to do anything about it?

Lweji: Yeah, I have been pleasantly surprised by Ivanka - I don't know enough about her yet, but the more I hear of her the more I like her!
Hopefully her role in the white house will be as Trump's conscience.

Have you read anything by Ben Goldacre (Bad Science) fourmummy? I got accused of dystopian bastardry last time I recommended a book on here, but you would probably like it.

And the University of East Anglia controversy is a really good example of the way journalism can sometimes manipulate/misunderstand the facts - in this case quotes from private emails taken completely out of context. Is that what you meant?

officially beyond parody

Claig, are you watching Tucker Carlson? Brilliant tonight and hes only 15 mins in!

Bertrand, that really is the stuff of a far fetched satirical sketch.

Tucker Carlson is on a roll tonight..... lols