Trump (Part 3)

[claig]

The last one filled up quickly.

More discussion on the significance of Trump, Trumpism and the Trumpsters and what it all means for Blairites.

Trump didn't make the call:

Prime Minister Muhammad Nawaz Sharif called President-elect USA Donald Trump and felicitated him on his victory.

You don't go around calling leaders after you win an election

You do if the current relationship between Pakistan and USA does not encourage calls of congratulations. He reached out to Pakistan, and that in their eyes is important.

'It is undiplomatic to say anything like this. It is essential that both parties do not lose face. It is not necessary to explain to another country's president that you were a bit strong in your campaign, this is totally unnecessary and it would embarrass the other party.'

Brilliant. It is common sense, which Trump has in spades.

Oh, yes, I have checked that just now. What was that all about, then?

Having said that, sorry for keep mentioning Musharraf. It was the PM who called. I'll refer to Sharif from now on.

India is already unhappy with Trump:

This has to be read against the background that during the campaign, Trump made one of his characteristic expansive, blustering, but frankly ignorant offers. He offered to mediate about Kashmir between Pakistan and India. I cannot be sure, but that is a possibility in what he means about being “ready and willing to play any role.” He seems to mean the “role” of mediator on Kashmir.

Needless to say, it was unwelcome to India when he made that offer the first time. Presented in this casual but frankly ignorant way – for he has never shown any idea that he knows anything of Kashmir – it is perhaps even more unwelcome this time.

www.forbes.com/sites/charlestiefer/2016/11/30/trumps-ignorant-call-to-sharif-may-send-india-an-unwelcome-message/2/#695dc5ad3fbc

He reached out to Pakistan, and that in their eyes is important.

Apparently, he didn't.
Pakistan made the obligatory call, as expected.

"We are not dealing with mean girls who have fallen out" - No, we are dealing with a volatile nuclear armed region with a history of conflict and disputed territories, in which tensions have been escalating recently...

Pakistan made the obligatory call

That's good, Lweji, but you did say earlier:
"You don't go around calling leaders after you win an election."

In fact you do, but in the case of Pakistan and strained relations I could see Trump making the first move. But he didn't and protocol was followed.

Anyway, he'll be aware now that what he thinks are private conversations with foreign leaders may not be so private after all. :)

Or that saying one thing to one set of people and another to a different set may not be a good thing. At least it wasn't considered to when Hillary did it.
It seems that Trump can present two faces. I wonder if it's because he's a man, or because he's "Trump" god on earth.

In fact you do,

In fact, you don't. Mostly because they will call you first. It's a Diplomacy basic.

What would anyone call for? Look, I won the election. How great am I?

What would anyone call for? Look, I won the election. How great am I?

Isn't that what Twitter is for?

Yes, but foreign leaders don't read tweets, clearly.

Trump is a bull in a nuclear china shop, as a US ambassador said this afternoon.

He hasn't got a clue.

He's basically slightly thick.

Now, here's an interesting article:

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/dec/02/brexit-trump-populists-sore-winners-play-victim

Whether it’s Brexit or Trump, populists are such sore winners
"Unlikely political victors in the US and UK are now even angrier: because, robbed of the ability to blame everything on others, they can no longer play the victim"
"There was no agenda, no genuinely thought-out project that the winners could soberly set about executing, just resentment. And the grievance narrative must be continued even in success because that is pretty much the whole energising principle."
"The politicians now in charge must distract voters by attributing their failures to sabotage. Those supporters who were animated by populist desires and prejudices, rather than rational argument, will inevitably continue to view the world through that prism and therefore welcome the diversions with relish, locked in a battle with an opposing side that has been defeated and is inanimate."
"Matthew Parris describes Brexiters obsessed with extending their fight against the vanquished side even after the battle is won as victorious troops still stalking the battlefield, kicking the corpses of the dead. Actually it’s more disturbing – the victors are kicking the corpses and then running away screaming because the cadavers have moved. "

It represents these threads so well.

Lweji: "Shut up while I talk at you about free speech!"

Also, by an Oxbridge elite wizzkid:

This is the most dangerous time for our planet
by Stephen Hawking

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/dec/01/stephen-hawking-dangerous-time-planet-inequality

"the world’s leaders need to acknowledge that they have failed and are failing the many."
"we must help people to retrain for a new world and support them financially while they do so. If communities and economies cannot cope with current levels of migration, we must do more to encourage global development, as that is the only way that the migratory millions will be persuaded to seek their future at home. "

"We can do this, I am an enormous optimist for my species; but it will require the elites, from London to Harvard, from Cambridge to Hollywood, to learn the lessons of the past year. To learn above all a measure of humility."

I think it applies to all leaders.
I also think that the highlighted part is key. Global development is key, rather than closing borders, or putting our own countries first.
I do hope that Trump doesn't work to hinder Global development. Global inequality fuels migration and hatred. Something that the US doesn't want.
He isn't wrong that it's better to make deals, rather than war. It's in fact what Obama has been working towards the past 8 years. It's mostly hardly newsworthy, or not for more than a day.
I'll be happy if Trump doesn't destroy what Obama has built with other nations. If he can improve on it, all the better. but somehow I doubt it

'This is the most dangerous time for our planet
by Stephen Hawking'

Give over. They always call on Hawking when they are in trouble, like Sir Bob and Izzard.

'This is the most dangerous time for our planet'

"We're doomed, we're all doomed, Captain Cameron. The people have voted for Brexit and now they have put Trump in. Our game is up. Call Sir Bob and Izzard, we're stuffed. The people are rising."

"The planet, Stephen, the climate, we're all doomed, the planet and that rascal Farage in the elevator in Manhattan and the election in Thanet"

"Nigel Farage says he would stand for election again in South Thanet

Interim Ukip leader goes back on pledge to retire from frontline politics, saying he would stand in rerun in Kent constituency
...
Police are investigating whether the Conservatives broke spending rules in the Kent seat at the last general election, when the party successfully fought off a challenge by Farage. The probe could lead to the result being declared void.
...
He added: “I suspect one of the reasons Downing Street is being so vile about me – just when I can play a positive role with Trump – is because they are worried this may come back to bite them.”

When asked if he would stand if there were a rerun, Farage answered: “I’d have to.”

He also raised the prospect of Trump coming over to boost his election campaign, claiming South Thanet had the “best golf courses in Britain”.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/nov/20/nigel-farage-stand-election-again-south-thanet

"This is the most dangerous time for the planet. Farage is back and he's only best mates with Trump. We're doomed. Call Stephen, call Sir Bob, call Izzard. If Farage gets back in, it's game over for the lot of us."

Did you read the article Claig? That wasn't exactly the point he was making and he came across as very humble in it.

I didn't read it because I know it will be spin. I could take the spin apart line by line if I felt like it, but why bother, Trump is in charge and that is what counts.

"With not only jobs but entire industries disappearing, we must help people to retrain for a new world and support them financially while they do so. If communities and economies cannot cope with current levels of migration, we must do more to encourage global development, as that is the only way that the migratory millions will be persuaded to seek their future at home"

Nothing particularly unreasonable there, Claig....

Stephen Hawking, the expert on jobs and business, says

"With not only jobs but entire industries disappearing, we must help people to retrain for a new world"

What, a new world without jobs?

Trump, a real businessman, a billionaire, is not "going to retrain people a la Cameron and Osborne", but is going to bring jobs back and there will be "consequences" if companies leave America.

Sir Stephen says

"and support them financially while they do so"

Support them financially out of taxation? More taxation for the working population?

Trump, a real businessman and billionaire, says he will slash taxation for companies, repatriate their offshore holdings, and be "the biggest job creator in US history", so the working population won't need to pay more taxation.

'If communities and economies cannot cope with current levels of migration, we must do more to encourage global development,'

says Sir Stephen. There is no "if" about it, the people voted for Brexit, against Cameron's wishes and the rest of the Oxbridge elites, because they wanted controlled immigration instead of the uncontrolled immigration that these "geniuses" as Trump would say had delivered up for us. And what is Stephen's answer - more "global development", so more globalisation which the American people and the European people are all voting against, more globalisation that the Oxbridge servants of the elites are all in favour of, more offshoring of jobs and lower wages as our economy is deskilled as the corporations and banks move abroad and take our jobs with them

'as that is the only way that the migratory millions will be persuaded to seek their future at home"'

says Sir Stephen. So we have to pay so that they will be "persuaded" to seek their future at home. What if they are not "persuaded" by Sir Stephen's approach? What then? Well Trump will enforce border security and checks and expel illegal immigrants and that is what the British people also voted for in Brexit, control of our borders and controlled immigration.

Tomorrow, the Guardian will probably print a joint article by Sir Bob and Izzard on why we are all doomed and that "it is the most dangerous time for the planet" because Trump and the people won.

'the migratory millions'

This is classic Oxbridge! Monty Python.

"migratory"

They are having a right laugh at the people up there in Oxbridge