Trump (Part 3)

[claig]

The last one filled up quickly.

More discussion on the significance of Trump, Trumpism and the Trumpsters and what it all means for Blairites.

Why do you think they took the step of releasing what he said, word for word then? That's not standard practice. You're convinced its not to embarrass him, so why?

You cannot go steaming in with a belligerent attitude. You seem unable to understand diplomacy.

Well that sums up Trump nicely. I'm sure he is a well balanced character (he has a chip on each shoulder).

I'm sure Pakistan are well aware of Trump's previous rantings about them, which makes releasing the transcript of his fawning phone call all the more interesting.

"We are lions led by donkeys"

We certainly are now.

Trump just waved a generic flattering speech that did him no favours

THAT is diplomacy. You may hate the other guy, but you have to be seen being bountiful. New broom, new start. Your opposite number will also say similar perhaps thru gritted teeth.

lol!!! arse licking is not a 'long practised formal and formalised' method of introducing yourself.

'Why do you think they took the step of releasing what he said, word for word then? That's not standard practice. You're convinced its not to embarrass him, so why?'

Probably to get one up on India and to show the Pakistani people that Trump praises the leader adn their country. Trump is not embarrassed by it. He will say exactly the same to India. That is common sense, he is a good businessman, he is a salesman, he knows how to flatter and get along with people. He is doing the same with Romney right now, while simultaneously humiliating him and winding up the Trump fans. Pure genius.

'lol!!! arse licking is not a 'long practised formal and formalised' method of introducing yourself.'

What has Tony Blair got to do with this?

I'm sure Pakistan are well aware of Trump's previous rantings about them

And vice versa with the Obama administration. So what? Have you considered that Pakistan may have a genuine gripe against USA, and it is equally difficult but necessary to do this type of kissy-kissy for both parties?

Absolutely, OxfordStreet, it is a new broom. Trump has signalled to the whole world, including North Korea and Russia, that he is willing to get along with everyone if they can all come to an acceptable deal that suits everyone. No cards are off the table, Trump will get along with everyone because unlike all the other politicians we are used to, Trump is in full charge and no one pulls his strings.

He doesn't know how to flatter. That is the point. He did it haphazardly. To great amusement of the recipient, I'm sure.

BadKitten - It is absolutely. We have diplomats in situ in various countries and they have a helluva job doing the formal and formalised. That is how many countries conduct themselves at high level, also factor in the Dos and Donts of different cultures.

I think your general knowledge is lacking.

Ever wondered why our great country was in so much shit?

I didn't have to wonder. It was mostly due to the bank crisis caused by greedy bankers and deregulation, along real estate speculation, following up a US Republican administration.

We are up for good times, indeed.

It'll be fine Lweji, Trump will just declare the United States of America bankrupt, call in the receivers, and then start up a new country called the Unified States of America (t/a Trump Industries) and all will be well.

It's worked for Trump in the past. Several times.

That sounds about right, informal.

We have diplomats in situ in various countries and they have a helluva job doing the formal and formalised. That is how many countries conduct themselves at high level, also factor in the Dos and Donts of different cultures.

But that was not, in any way, what Trump did.

A half decent diplomatic conversation would probably go like:
Pleased to talk to you. Yours is a great country that I respect enormously (to use Trump's style). I know the relationship between the US and Pakistan has been fraught with problems, and I have been very critical myself, but that was mostly for campaign purposes. I am completely open for dialogue and in resolving issues between ourselves and other countries in the region. I am sure that by working together we can achieve peace and prosperity for both our countries.

That sounds about right, informal.

Yes.

It does not matter, he did it. It's de rigeur, and not to praise a country or president would be soon as gross rudeness.

The problem, again, is not that he praised the country or the President. It's how he did it.
It may be better than call him names (like terrorist supporter - but then who would? Except on Twitter), but it didn't help him much.

There is an awful lot of middle ground between gushing meaningless praise and steaming in with a belligerent attitude. That Trump seems unable to locate that middle ground doesn't bode well for his diplomatic skills.
Yes, he should be respectful on his first phone calls to foreign heads of state, but he should also have the awareness that lavishing unconditional praise on one country may insult another (eg. India).
I remember when Obama said something incredibly innocuous in praise of Merkel recently there were posts on mumsnet expressing outrage at the perceived snub to the UK. So imagine how Trump's phone call went down in India....

Lweji - Except Trump is from the business community. And he did what is required of him by phoning various individuals, but it is not necessary for him to talk in his own words.

And you never ever ever say:

I know the relationship between the US and Pakistan has been fraught with problems, and I have been very critical myself, but that was mostly for campaign purposes

It is undiplomatic to say anything like this. It is essential that both parties do not lose face. It is not necessary to explain to another country's president that you were a bit strong in your campaign, this is totally unnecessary and it would embarrass the other party.

The 'first time' that presidents speak to each other is an important rite of passage, and no mention of hostilities can be mentioned. Just as it was up to Trump to make the phone call, not the other way around.

correction bloody jumping screen. I meant to say it IS necessary for Trump to talk in his own words.

Time Magazine: "The U.S. President-elect's ill-considered words could have serious regional and global consequences."

time.com/4587069/donald-trump-pakistan-phone-call-nawaz-sharif/

Forbes: "One of the main messages it sends, is that he shows no awareness of the issues between the United States, Pakistan, and India."

www.forbes.com/sites/charlestiefer/2016/11/30/trumps-ignorant-call-to-sharif-may-send-india-an-unwelcome-message/#569580f92ba7

Lweji - Except Trump is from the business community.

which is why he should have taken advice from the diplomacy community.

Just as it was up to Trump to make the phone call, not the other way around.

Good point, but in reverse. Trump called?
Surely, he should have waited for a congratulatory phone call. Or approach Musharraf only after taking office.
You don't go around calling leaders after you win an election.

lavishing unconditional praise on one country may insult another (eg. India)

No, all countries practice diplomacy. It is understood. We are not dealing with mean girls who have fallen out, and one wants to return to the group.