Trump (Part 3)

[claig]

The last one filled up quickly.

More discussion on the significance of Trump, Trumpism and the Trumpsters and what it all means for Blairites.

"'Exxon. Who suppressed their own evidence of climate change and put millions into promoting denial.'

Exactly, that is why it would be a great business choice."

This is just terribly sad.

Yes, you are right and delightful.

Perhaps one day the 'people' will ask the question ' how does capitalism work for me?' Now that will be very interesting indeed.

Is anyone else worried that his proposed Defence Secretary goes by the nickname 'Mad Dog'?

Coz I am...

Has anyone else seen the transcript of the call he allegedly had with the Pakistani Prime Minister? Stroke of genius releasing it by them, making a mockery of him with his own words.

Yes, gingernaut, but there are so many things to be alarmed by with Trump this just seemed par for the course.

In fairness, he seems a good choice in this role, nickname goes back to his marine days, so wouldn't hold that against him.

Claig - whatever you do, keep posting. We are all still reading.

DetMcnulty: I hadn't but I just googled it, thanks. When he goes on a charm offensive he really goes all out, doesn't he? Very different to his words during the campaign.

Mad dog Mattis doesn't seem so bad now that I've had a chance to read up on him - he's a tough talker but seems reasonably intelligent at least. He is pretty hawkish on Iran though, so I don't know what that will mean for the nuclear deal.

He has a very different opinion to Trump on Putin....

www.vox.com/world/2016/12/1/13718282/pentagon-jim-mad-dog-mattis-trump-iran-hawk-russia-secretary-of-defense-general

If he's concerned about Iran, it would have been silly to ignore Russia.
Neither is a friend to the US and both are potentially very dangerous.

The key is how to deal with them. It has been a mixture of behind the doors diplomacy and of tough stance. Obama seems to have tried diplomacy for the most part, with agreements being disregarded by the Russians. I'm not surprised the general was worried about Iran defaulting on the agreement. Unless it also suited Russia that Iran doesn't get nuclear capabilities.
That may have been why Hillary's stance seemed more hawkish. You need to show willingness to negotiate as well as for acting with force. History has shown that it's the best option (or you end up with a WWII situation).

In his different attitude towards the two countries, Trump may think of Iran as a weaker link, but I wouldn't be sure. Or he could be motivated by the fact that it's a Muslim country, as opposed to Russia, which is white.

Whatever happens, I doubt the US will ever be free of being involved in armed conflicts, or they will simply lose influence.
So, good luck to Trump his art of the deal. Particularly if he goes extra tough on Muslims.

Following his bizarre conversation with the Pakistani PM:

"“By taking such a cavalier attitude to these calls, he’s encouraging people not to take him seriously,” said Daniel F. Feldman, a former special representative to Afghanistan and Pakistan. “He’s made himself not only a bull in a china shop, but a bull in a nuclear china shop.”"

mobile.nytimes.com/2016/12/01/us/politics/trumps-off-the-cuff-remarks-to-world-leaders-leave-diplomats-aghast.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=0&referer=

Thanks, fourmummy

"Perhaps one day the 'people' will ask the question ' how does capitalism work for me?' Now that will be very interesting indeed."

MissMarplesHat, capitalism works well which is why so many illegal and legal immigrants from South America want to go to America and not to Cuba. Capitalism gives people a chance, it is a meritocracy where Cuban immigrants like Ted Cruz or Marco Rubio can end up running for President of the United States and go to Harvard etc. The opportunities are limitless for hardworking, talented people because it is a meritocracy. Capitalists don't care what race, sex or age you are as long as you are talented and can make money.

And for capitalism to work really well, the people have to be free, liberated to develop in whatever way they choose, to set their own priorities and "do their own thing" and most importantly that requires free speech, all of which the United States is number one at, which is why it has been such a successful and free country.

The real elites dislike the United States and they dislike freedom and free speech because they dislike the people, the Deplorables, and the fact that they are free to "rise up and take the power back" as the Muse record "Uprising" says.

Donald Trump has appeared and slapped the real elites in the face, taken the piss out of them, dressed them down and bullied them and taken America back for the people so that capitalism, not socialism, will enable the people to get rich and "make America great again". It won't be like Cuba, the favourite of the left wingers, it will be like Trump capitalism on steroids and what that will involve is putting the people first, the American people first and "America First" as Trump has said, and that means that the elites are "last" and their globalist free trade deals are in the dustbin, so that capitalism works for the people and not for them.

That is why they are all so scared of Trump and why the BBC and Channel 4 News spins non-stop against him and why the New York Times is "aghast" that Trump praised Pakistan and the Pakistani leader, in exactly the same way that he will of course praise India and the Indian leader, because that is how Trump rolls, he gets on with everyone and defies the political correctness of the elites who try to tell him what he is allowed to do or say. He is going to be President of the United States and he will say whatever he likes and all the elites will have to get used to it.

MissMarplesHat, capitalism works well which is why so many illegal and legal immigrants from South America want to go to America and not to Cuba.

There is a middle ground, though. Lots of people also flock to Europe where there is freedom of speech, but the vulnerable are better taken care of than in purely capitalist countries.

It's all very nice when you're talented and healthy, but not so much if you then have children with special needs or you fall ill.

The US is failing their own citizens in that respect, and it looks like Trump won't make it better. Worse, if anything.

Cherie Blair was on TV the other night speaking to Evan Davies on BBC Newsnight and he asked Cherie about teh collapse of Blairisma dn New Labour style politics as populism sweeps the world and she said

"We have allowed things to be said that shouldn't be said ... and by people who should know better"

These politically correct elites, mainly servants from Oxbridge, have tried to bully the British people for years and tried to tell us what we are allowed to say or think and they have insulted us and called us "racist" for wanting controlled immigration and our sovereignty back from the EU or for voting for Farage and UKIP who were the only people who said it was not racist to wanted our sovereignty back.

Now they are trying to bully the next President of the United States and saying that "he should know better" about what he wants to say about anything he likes, including if he wants to praise Pakistan which the liberals at the New York Times say they are "aghast" at.

It is the end of the rule of the servants from Oxbridge, the end of the servants to the elites. Trump has ushered in a new era, after our own Brexit rebellion against the servants and spinners, and they will no longer be able to take our free speech and bully us about what "we are allowed to say".

This Sunday is likely to see the people's revolution continue as the populists beat the servants.

As teh Italian woman said on BBC Newsnight last night

"we have a political class who wants to sell out to Europe to the banks and the financial system"

We have teh same and all Europeans have the same. But not for much longer.

As Muse sang

"They will not force us
They will stop degrading us
They will not control us
We will be victorious"

They will never take our free speech, however many Blairites they foist upon us and howver many Oxbridge spinners they stuff all teh news channels and newspapers with.

They wil never tell us "what we are alowed to say" and who we can vote for. We can vote for Farage and Brexit because we are free, and Trump is on Farage's side and on our side and has beaten the whole lot of them.

People are aghast at how monumentally stupid and incoherent he sounds in that transcript, not that he's praising Pakistan. It seems like Pakistan getting their revenge on his previous twitter rants about them.

I don't think that capitalism does work perfectly for everyone, but I can't see an alternative that would work better. I am not hard left, I don't see anything inherently immoral in being wealthy (depends how you make and use that wealth, obviously) but I don't see anything inherently immoral in being poor either.
I personally would not argue for complete redistribution of wealth but I definitely don't want to see the gap between rich and poor ever widening. And that is what will happen if we do nothing to level the playing field - power accumulates money and money buys power in a constant positive feedback loop. I want to see laws that protect those with less money and power from the powerful and rich, I want to see tax and spending plans that help to promote equality of opportunity, and I want to see well written regulations that curb the power of the wealthy to endlessly accumulate more wealth at the expense of everyone else.
Judging by Trump's cabinet appointments, policies and background I think he will do the opposite.

Now they are trying to bully the next President of the United States and saying that "he should know better" about what he wants to say about anything he likes, including if he wants to praise Pakistan which the liberals at the New York Times say they are "aghast" at.

I think it was you who said that Trump doesn't know much about, well anything, really, and he'd take advice from people who did. That he'd surround himself with good people who know.
So, do you think he's following someone's advice? If so, whose?
And if not, why not? Do you think it's a good thing for him to say whatever he wants without proper knowledge or advice (particularly in international politics)?

Pakistan will be well aware of what Trump said about them on his campaign - I don't think that a gushing phone call will make them forget that. All Trump has achieved is to come across as being very insincere.

This is an interesting take on his infrastructure promises (and who will benefit the most).
www.nytimes.com/2016/11/21/opinion/build-he-wont.html?action=click&contentCo

'Pakistan will be well aware of what Trump said about them on his campaign - I don't think that a gushing phone call will make them forget that.'

Trump is going to be the most popular leader America has ever had, just watch and see. He is despised by the elites, but loved by the people.

My guess is Trump will fly into Pakistan and be treated as a hero by the ordinary people, he will fly into India and there wil be crowds so huge to see him it will be like nothing we have seen, he will fly into Russia and he will be mobbed like Kennedy when he said "Ich bin Berliner", he will be treated as a hero in China and in Israel, and when he flies into Syria, the people will treat him as a hero too, because Trump represents liberty, freedom, free speech, business, wealth and common sense - all the things that are best about the United States.

Trump will probably even go to North Korea and they will think he is a hero too.

The only people who won't like Trump will be the Jihadis and the elites.

The leader of the No Faith Foundation and the Orifice of Tony Blair, former Middle East Envoy of the Quartet is despised by people nearly everywhere on earth and loved by the elites. Trump will be the exact opposite.

This is a discussion forum not an echo chamber

Discussion forum, not Google.

Well, we'll see Claig. (By the way I am not the elite or a Jihadi and it will take a hell of a lot to make me change my mind on Trump.)

Oh, claig. :)

I would like to see Trump go to North Korea, though. Maybe they'd parade their nuclear arsenal for him too. Maybe shoot a few generals with missiles, while they were at it.

Anyway, it looks like Trump did forget what he had said about Pakistan, and his call seems like something he'd say to another CEO. Just generic words to flatter them.
I'm sure most CEOs see through it anyway, but Musharraf isn't your average US voter.