Brexit: Majority of UK now wants to stay in EU, poll finds

[flowersandsunshine]

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-poll-majority-uk-remain-eu-theresa-may-article-50-second-referendum-latest-a7395811.html

Clearly an argument for a second referendum, and for not triggering Article 50.

"Surely you don't know EVERY single person who voted leave. "

I'm merely pointing out that it is far more likely that those bullied into voting remain would not do so again.

I'm sure are all sorts of articles which try to soothe the cognitive dissonance of those who can't accept the result, doesn't of course mean they're founded in reality.

Nope.

Gettingtherequickly
I imagine loads of people didn't know what they were voting for (being that no-one knew).

This year has destroyed democracy, it's not working any more. We need another way.

So if you don't get the result you like, there is something wrong with democracy? Bloody hell!

I imagine lots of people didn't know what they're voting for (being that the government, governor of BofE and many rich business men lied and to create a climate if fear)

This year has proved that democracy works people will not vote to maintain an elite status quo that doesn't benefit them

So if you don't get the result you want campaign, hope to get a different outcome the next time a vote comes up. Forty years sounds about right for the EU, four years for an GE.

So if you don't get the result you like, there is something wrong with democracy? Bloody hell!

It's scary how many people are saying this, in one way or another, usually less directly, but still with the underlying belief that not everyone should have an equal say in our democracy.

I've yet to hear anyone propose a better alternative though (to paraphrase Churchill).

This year has proved that democracy works people will not vote to maintain an elite status quo that doesn't benefit them

It remains to be seen if the alternatives they have voted for will benefit them more or less than the previous status quo.

I voted Leave. I'd vote Leave again without hesitation though I am exceedingly annoyed by any suggestion that I need do so. I think that poll is nonsense.

I voted leave because l wanted to leave and still do, and am so fed up with peoples inability to accept the results of the vote.

I expected the Remain vote to win and if it had l would have just shut up.

I don't know anyone who voted to leave who has changed their mind, everyone l knew who voted either way thought long and hard and carefully and made their decision.

There will be no second referendum and rightly so.

Dragongirl - remainers don't accept Brexit because we have no clue what Brexit looks like! Accepting a totally uncertain situation is not sensible!

with respect bobo, but have you listened to whats happening in europe and eu? theres not a lot of certainty there either.

I live in France, my sister in the Netherlands and we have friends and family all over the place.

That makes your point even more odd, sorry.

I think it makes it more informed. The uncertainty generated by Brexit is absolutely monstrous for those of us who have lived our lives committed to the values of the EU.

I'm guessing fewer than 5% of people who voted in the referendum could give a detailed overview of the functions, jurisdiction and institutions of the EU.

In view of this, voting to Remain was akin to saying, 'I don't think this is a decision that uniformed people should be able to make'. And voting Leave was basically, 'fuck it, we've got nothing to lose'.

I was in the former camp and I despair of the latter.

I voted Remain. The UK actually leaving the EU would be overwhelmingly negative for me on a personal level, seeing as I am a British expat living and working on the continent.

However, as much as I don't want the UK to leave, I also question the wisdom of not leaving. We'd be in a ridiculously weakened position within the EU now if we meekly said 'actually we don't want to leave after all'. And we'd generally look pretty stupid on the world stage.

I think Brexit light would be the best solution at this point, i.e. keep freedom of trade and City passport in exchange for freedom of movement.

Polls are notoriously unreliable.

All of the polls except one predicted a Hillary Clinton win.

Yoko I voted leave and I have plenty to lose, thank you, as have many other leave voters.

If you really believe most leave voters have nothing to lose, you need to have another look at the voting figures. Eg 43% ABs voted leave, plus have a look at the "my family's protest vote" thread for lots of remain voters arguing the opposite, that in their communities, it is the well off who voted leave and those struggling remain)

I think charicatured, simplified and just plain wrong comments about why people voted as they did are really unhelpful.

I didn't mean nothing to lose as in financially. I meant that they felt disenfranchised (perhaps they perceived that their country wasn't 'theirs', for example) so they voted leave.

I'm sure there are a proportion of leave voters who feel like that, but not the majority of more than 17 million people. I certainly don't feel like that, or the other leave voters I know. More than 70% of people where I live voted leave - these include people with good jobs, nice homes, people who are local councillors and otherwise involved in local politics and community life, business people. I think to try to categorise the leave vote as "the disenfranchised" is very wrong. I think the majority of people who voted leave did so because they want to leave the EU.

What do you base your view on?

Can I also just comment on your point Yoko about how little people understand about the workings of the EU

I'm guessing fewer than 5% of people who voted in the referendum could give a detailed overview of the functions, jurisdiction and institutions of the EU

I agree with this but for me this is one of the main reasons I want to leave. I want to be able to be a full participant in a well functioning democracy. I know how local and government works, I know who my councillors and MP are and how to get involved in political matters they deal with, how to try to influence decisions and indeed what the decisions being made are. I believe our government is reasonably open, not perfect by any means, and sometimes we don't get the truth until it's too late (eg Chilcot). But at least we have a culture that we get to the truth of and understand how political decision making works in the end.

With the EU, very few of us have that understanding and there certainly isn't that culture of openess (take TTIPP which was a long way along the road before it started to trickle into most people's consciousness's). For me, this demonstrates why the EU does not work as a functioning democratic institution.

wrongtrouser agreed, and that is the fault of both the EU and successive politicians/journalists who deliberately obfuscated its purposes and objectives.

I'm a staunch Remainer but also a reformer and would have preferred to have stayed part of things in order to have a seat at the EU table. This is why MEPs like Farage have been so damaging to the system, seeking to discredit the EU by not turning up and ridiculing it, rather than seeking to change things for the better.

yoko the problem with remaining is reforming 'from within' - that has been said for years (Thatcher said it) -it hasn't really worked. I voted leave cos I don't think it can work but it needs to.
I didn't really understand the workings of the EU really pre the vote - so I looked into it and decided it is extremely complicated, not very democratic and as things stand we really are better off out -it is now so much more than a single market.

However Brexit has shaken up the EU and that will (should) help reform.

Also I think that certain aspects of our eg welfare state and health service as well as the fact we have one of the highest NMW in the EU means we are overly attractive as a destination (or at least seem to be from an outside perspective)and we are a densely populated country compared to the rest of the EU.
I hate the way people are treated who complain that they can't get eg a GP appointment. Mainly it is due to the population (under Blair/Brown) increasing so quickly and dramatically. But we are told that is due to underinvestment -we need to spend more money on the NHS. (Ignoring the fact that to build a new hospital/train a doctor takes years)
And at the same time are told they can't recruit staff, are short staffed so need immigrant workers (more pressure on the services) ...and as a country we have a deficit - need to go to the magic money tree for that extra money.
I think lots of people voted leave partly because of immigration - and not because they are racist (although there are no doubt some racists) but because they are being told things that aren't true - are experiencing problems and are being told they don't exist and immigration brings wealth etc... If they show discontent or concern they are bigoted. (As that lady in Rochdale and Gordon Brown) - therefore light brexit - with FOM- is not what people actually wanted.