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Politics

Trump vs Clinton Round 3. Probably the biggest debate ever.

983 replies

claig · 16/10/2016 13:57

Oct 20th 2 am UK time.

Last chance for the Establishment to stop the Trump surge in the polls.
World leaders will be watching, Establishments will be tuning in on the edge of their seats in trepidation.

People will be laughing, diving into the popcorn and knocking back the alcohol.

Round 3. Rock'n'roll.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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Kaija · 20/10/2016 17:52

Can you name any reputable scientists who don't believe in climate change?

pastelmacaroons · 20/10/2016 17:56

Having quick skim read, not up on this as all of you Smile

I caught some of Paxman on this - and I was most surprised after Trumps comments to see a Muslim - supporting him? He was a Muslim with a large charity or something and said he fully understands what Trump means by halting all travel and he said he and other Muslims understand this is not about them but the corrupt element within it, he said " I am a father I have a family"

The other huge surprise to me was to learn Martin Luther Kings Niece has apparently come out in support of Trump? Anyway - perhaps someone can enlighten me Grin

Want2bSupermum · 20/10/2016 17:56

Lweji He was passable on how he managed the Clinton foundation. There is proof which is widely documented in the media if you google it, that she accepted cash for access which she was SoS. The Trump foundation is squeaky clean in comparison.

Lweji · 20/10/2016 17:59

There are different forms of knowledge to describe the world. Religion is one.

Erm... Religion is not knowledge.

Science does not tell us about truth (neither does religion)
Religion does speak of "truth", but science does deal with facts.

"We used to think that Pluto was a planet and now we don't,*
The knowledge about it didn't change, just the classification, which is different. In that case, the size didn't change, it was just that more planetoids were found and scientists had to decide whether to keep the previous classification or not.
It was the definition of planet (opinion) that changed, not what we knew about Pluto.

Science is valued not because of its ability to tell the truth but because of what emanates from it - quality of life, medical care, technology, guns, planes, cancer drugs,
It is valued because of what it emanates from it, because it is able to actually tell the truth, rather than opinion.
Opinion doesn't translate into reliable data to develop reliable medical care. (see Homeopathy)

ethics such as equality for women.
No, it doesn't come from science. :)

If science told us the absolute truth about something, it would be incontrovertible. It isn't. It's a better way to understand the world (if technology, medicine and whatever are your thing) but it's not 'truth', but, if everyone adheres to it, we'll all be better off (if you like technology, dishwashers, etc.. Some don't - and then there's a clash).

Oh, dear. It doesn't lead to technology if everyone adheres to it or not. FGS. It's whether it tells the truth or not, yes. Machines work with laws that are measurable and don't change according to opinion.

All scientists realise that our current knowledge about the world can be overturned in the future, as it has been in the past.
More like improved.
If there is more data, not when opinions change.
Continents didn't start drifting because more people started believing they did.

Jesus!

PS- I like it when people explain to me what and how scientists think. Grin

Lweji · 20/10/2016 18:02

There is proof which is widely documented in the media if you google it, that she accepted cash for access which she was SoS. The Trump foundation is squeaky clean in comparison.

Not really.
And definitely not.

Even if she had, the money did revert to charitable causes, not to her purse. Unlike Trump, who used Foundation money for very odd purposes.

fourmummy · 20/10/2016 18:03

Anyway, to get back to Trump, I think that people are pushing back against a cultural trend, which has asked them to accommodate multiple positions in terms of cultural outlook (science vs religion, black vs white, A vs B). I think that people are perceiving politicians as creating multiple differences (also known as shit stirring), where there wouldn't ordinarily be an issue. Some difference is obviously tolerable but some isn't. One solution is to group according to similarity more than difference, and that explains Trump's popularity. Another is to try to live side-by-side with difference, and that would explain Clinton's popularity.

Lweji · 20/10/2016 18:06

What are going on about Trump and Clinton and society, fourmummy?

It sounds just as well thought out as the previous posts on science and knowledge.

WinchesterWoman · 20/10/2016 18:06

Yeah there are some atmospheric physicists and other physicists I'll try to find some names when I get home

They don't speak out much, too afraid I guess

They instantly become disreputable when they do

WinchesterWoman · 20/10/2016 18:07

How you doing four

Kaija · 20/10/2016 18:08

I see. So no reputable scientists then.

claig · 20/10/2016 18:09

Trump doing a stunning speech in Delaware, Ohio right now. He is incredible, they have never come across anyone like him.

pastelmacaroons, here is Matyin Luther King's niece, Dr Alveda King, endorsing Trump

If you want to get a real understanding of why Trump is so popular and is still likely to win despite the mainstream media, check out his rally in Delaware, Ohio today on youtube. Amazing stuff.

OP posts:
Kaija · 20/10/2016 18:10

However, I would like to read up on them even if they have lost their reputations, so yes please do post some names.

Draylon · 20/10/2016 18:10

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

WinchesterWoman · 20/10/2016 18:12

Oh no they're reputable. You'd have to find something disreputable about them that isn't to do with climate change. Otherwise your case is entirely circular. You understand that don't you?

ZuleikaDobson · 20/10/2016 18:12

IceBeing, Hillary Clinton has not laughed at a rape victim.

WinchesterWoman · 20/10/2016 18:13

I'm worried you don't understand that. I can explain if you like when I get home and am not all thumbs.

fourmummy · 20/10/2016 18:18

Lweji - just keep reading it back Wink

WW - All good here. Just about to check out Trump's speech. I notice the polls are up? Is he experiencing a post-debate bounce??

WinchesterWoman · 20/10/2016 18:19

Okimamma are you being racist? That post was very odd. Reassure me - something rings very wrong about that. It's like a Jim Davidson joke.

WinchesterWoman · 20/10/2016 18:19

I don't know four. We love in crazy times.

WinchesterWoman · 20/10/2016 18:20

We live in crazy times. Live.

WinchesterWoman · 20/10/2016 18:21

Even Clinton supporters like him for the entertainment value. Some anyway. Unless they're just saying that in the temporary flow of complacency.

Draylon · 20/10/2016 18:22

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Kaija · 20/10/2016 18:24

You're killing me, WW Grin.

I understand that if they ceased to be taken seriously by the rest of the scientific community there is a good chance that it was because they stopped making sense at that point.

But show us the names and we can make a judgment on it.

Want2bSupermum · 20/10/2016 18:24

This is an article summing up the issues with the clinton foundation.

This gives a bit more insight into the difference between the two charities. With assets of $600k the Trump foundation is going to be run on a shoestring budget so that operating costs don't eat up the money they have to spend on charitable endeavors.

Also, buying two pictures of himself, and Tim Tebow's helmet doesn't concern me at all. I have audited many charities that buy things like that to auction off. The fact he last made a contribution in 2008 doesn't bother me either because they don't say what the contribution was. Based on their operating budget of $600k I would expect he made a one off donation of $50-75m.

If HC had a leg to stand on she would have answered the question last night. Instead she skirted around the issue and let the questions move on. She ought to be ashamed of herself considering her stance on women's rights.

WinchesterWoman · 20/10/2016 18:25

I'll explain the circular argument thing tonight. Dw it will all become clear.