Excited about the Labour leadership announcement

[Badgoushk]

For full disclosure I'm a Jeremy Corbyn supporter. I'm quite excited and hopeful that he's won again. Anyone else feeling it?!

'Don't forget how he came to be leader - he was the trade union's candidate - and a lot more left wing than any of the others in the running.'

Because the trade unions had been neutered, they had bought int Balirism, part from the legendary Bob Crow, and they believed the Establishment that this was the only way to win elections and therefore they let their own members down in pursuit of theor £100,000 salaries and their Lordships and baubles that the Establishment threw them. Some of them even now support the 172's Owen Smith. But Len McCluskey has said enough is enough and is backing a real socialist rather than Tom Watson and the rest of the 172.

Those mass rallies by which Jeremy Corbyn sets such store could be the first stirrings of a social movement, some of which may play a part in an eventual left renaissance.

Exactly. UKIP started in the early 90s so it's taken them 25 years to shift public opinion and dictate the political agenda in this country. (And they still only have 1 MP). It's going to take at least as long to shift it back to the centre never mind further left. By doing it within the party, you're making the party an unappealing protest party at the moment. Serious parties have to be pragmatic and compromise in the centre-ish. Too far left or right means they don't address the range of opinions across a country.

The country is generally right wing, but that is because they have never been offered a real left wing alternative that upends the Establishment and scraps tuition fees, renationalises rail, invests massively in housing and education and health, ends wars, taxes the corporations and Paname Papers types etc etc

I would say the country is generally centre right. Put very simply, most people strongly buy into the culture of aspiration and object to paying taxes. They are - certainly outside metropolitan areas - pretty socially conservative as well. People accept taxes in return for investment in education and health but, ultimately, are not prepared to sacrifice their own job security or standard of living to achieve that. So - politics ends up in the centre because, ultimately, it all falls out around where the money comes from. The classic Tory stereotype? I want a policeman on every corner but I don't want to pay any tax. The classic Labour stereotype? I want to tax the rich where rich is someone with more money than I have. Equally I'd argue they have been offered a proper left wing alternative - Corbyn is the real deal - the problem is he is unelectable because he isn't in step with the majority of the country.

Just heard an interesting anecdote which speaks very much to Corbyn's own lack of understanding of his current role as Leader of the Opposition (and poss future PM)

On election as leader MOD offered Jeremy Corbyn a briefing on our defence capability. He refused to go for weeks.

Now I am very much of the left (anti Trident etc) but still see the absolute necessity to skill up on the issue of defence

But, claig, as you point out yourself, the trade unions were finished by the end of the 1970s. Thatcher basically finished them off for good - and now the rise of globalisation means they can never be the force they once were. The world has changed and moved on (which is something, as an aside, that the UKIP lot fail to recognise as well). "Blairism" simply doesn't exist. What were his lasting achievements? I can only think of independence for the Bank of England. What he was able to do was to swing the country back to the centre from the right wing rut it had got into under Thatcherism.

'Serious parties have to be pragmatic and compromise in the centre-ish'

No, the centre has collapsed all over the world. Brexit, Trump, Farage, Corbyn are all indications that the centre has collapsed.

The centre is the Establishment - Ed Miliband, Blair and Cameron - and it has collapsed. The centre is the Establishment status quo where the Establishment wins and the people lose, where Panama Papers carry on and the people bail out the bankers who lobby the Establishment politicians. All of that has come to an end because people want change, an end to the status quo which is why all of the Establishment's helpers - Ed Miliband, the charidee brigade, Lord Pinnock, Blair, Cameron and all the rest of the 172 etc - can't prevent the tidal wave of Corbynism and "Momentum kids". it is over for the corrupt status quo and its servants, people want radical change of the system.

Corbyn offers radical change and that is why they are desperate to stop him.

Brexit is radical change and they wanted to stop that and they failed. Now they have failed to stop Corbyn and they won't stop "Momentum Kids" either.

Corbyn/McDonnel/Milne despise Great Britain. They are internationalist and anti West. I think enough working class people who traditionally vote Labour DO NOT identify with that strand of socialism.

The centre is the Establishment

That simply doesn't even mean anything.

Brexit is radical change

Nah - it's a total muddle. Nobody knows what it is. In the final analysis, we are going to end up cutting a deal like Norway...which - ironically- will leave us in a much worse position than we were in as part of the EU.

I can just about accept that some political illiterate people used it as an excuse to stick two fingers up to what you term the "Establishment". The real sadness for me is that what they have actually done is ensured a long term Tory government and a lower standard of living for everyone. The nature of the system means that if pro Europe Scotland continues to support the SNP (or worse, secedes from the UK), the Labour Party (even not in its current state) will struggle to take power as great swathes of England are overwhelmingly Tory. This is absolutely not what people in - eg Wales or Blackburn - were voting for. This is a real shame.

Politically illiterate, sorry! Damned ipad!

Corbyn/McDonnel/Milne despise Great Britain. They are internationalist and anti West. I think enough working class people who traditionally vote Labour DO NOT identify with that strand of socialism

totally agree

I would like a Corbyn supporter to answer why they think the majority of the electorate would ignore his stance on terrorists organisations such as the IRA and Hamas

I'm not sure how popular Jeremy Corbyn actually is. It could be that he's massively popular despite what the right wing press and media would like us to beleive. So far the actual polls we've seen he's held his own and he only needs to be marginally more popular than Ed Miliband to overturn the Tory majority.

It might be a case of first they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they attack you, then you win

Aethelflead, that is Corbyn and the left's weakness and it is their politicl correctness that may mean they won't succeed. The centre has collapsed and it won't return for decades. Can Corbyn rise to the chllenge that the people demand or will he fail in his political correctness and left wing dogma?

It is too early to say, but that is what politics will be all about for the next decade because the centre is finished, people no longer trust the Establishment, the media and its helpers and everybody is looking for change and a new direction.

I'm not sure how popular Jeremy Corbyn actually is. It could be that he's massively popular despite what the right wing press and media would like us to believe. So far the actual polls we've seen he's held his own and he only needs to be marginally more popular than Ed Miliband to overturn the Tory majority.

It might be a case of first they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they attack you, then you win

I think it's interesting that posters who have previously expressed admiration for Farage (and still do admire him, for all I know) seem to be equally keen on Corbyn. Has anyone else noticed this?

It's almost as though the politics don't matter. Or (awful thought) maybe Corbyn and Farage have more in common than either of them would ever admit?

I'm not sure how popular Jeremy Corbyn actually is. It could be that he's massively popular despite what the right wing press and media would like us to believe.

Again, as its relevant, www.smbc-comics.com/comics/1462804584-20160509.png

So far the actual polls we've seen he's held his own

?? which polls are those

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-leadership-results-live-jeremy-corbyn-owen-smith-poll-incompetent-working-class-voters-a7326486.html

I'm not sure how popular Jeremy Corbyn actually is. It could be that he's massively popular despite what the right wing press and media would like us to believe.

It could be. Not sure what odds you'd get on that, though! (Mind you, who'd have thought Ed Balls would be reborn as a national treasure? Maybe Jezza needs to get on Top Gear or Bake Off or something like that!)

I've never laughed at his leadership but I think humour is manna to the soul when poking fun at zealots so here goes:

In Corbyn's Britain the Police will be renamed the Kinder, Gentler Bobbies..

'I think it's interesting that posters who have previously expressed admiration for Farage (and still do admire him, for all I know) seem to be equally keen on Corbyn. Has anyone else noticed this?

It's almost as though the politics don't matter. Or (awful thought) maybe Corbyn and Farage have more in common than either of them would ever admit?'

Yes, I still admire Farage. What unites Corbyn and Farage is that they both oppose the Establishment status quo. I think that is the real underlying mood of the majority of the people across the Western world which is indicated by Brexit, Trump, Farage, Corbyn and the collapse of the centre, Of Ed Miliband, Blair and Csmeron and of the anti-establishment populist mood that is sweeping the Western world because people want chnge and an end to the stitch-up status quo of the Establishment centre.

He's nowhere near doing that Claudia.

Prior to 2010, the Labour Party could count on Scottish seats, but their vote in Scotland has now collapsed and they can't now. They are roughly in the same position as the Tories were after the GE in 1997.

Labour doesn't need Scottish seats to win, they can get a parliamentary majority without but to do this they need to win back seats in England aged Wales. Which means winning back votes from people who have voted Tory or UKIP.

Anyone who honestly believes Labour under JC is going to win these voters back is labouring (pun unintended) under a severe misapprehension.

The media and its Oxbridge graduates are part of the Establishment and they are busy telling us that Corbyn is unpopular while in fact he has the largest rallies of any political figure of the last fifty years. They are misguided and some are lying as they try their best to protect the centre that has collapsed and which people have lost faith in.

The Blairite spinners are on Sky News trying their best to save the old system as the Corbynistas drive a coach and horses through the Establishment consensus.

*England and Wales. The curse of autocorrect strikes again.

He does have large support at rallies and so did Michael Foot.

He does have large support at rallies and so did Michael Foot.

...but attendees at rallies are a self selecting group and not representative of the views of the electorate.

Flippinada "I think it's interesting that posters who have previously expressed admiration for Farage (and still do admire him, for all I know) seem to be equally keen on Corbyn. Has anyone else noticed this?

It's almost as though the politics don't matter. Or (awful thought) maybe Corbyn and Farage have more in common than either of them would ever admit?"

It is very interesting isn't it, and certainly once you get past a certain point the far left and far right start horribly to resemble each other.

Should also consider though who stands to gain from a divided and powerless Labour party, and UKIP look like the main beneficiaries. Arron Banks has made no secret of his intent to go after those disillusioned voters in the Labour heartlands. I expect that as soon as the noise has died down after the Labour leadership we will start hearing a lot more from them, not least on social media.