Excited about the Labour leadership announcement

[Badgoushk]

For full disclosure I'm a Jeremy Corbyn supporter. I'm quite excited and hopeful that he's won again. Anyone else feeling it?!

Looking at that voting breakdown, Leave voters voted Corbyn. Isn't that interesting?

And I believe many voters who have never voted Labour before also voted for JC

Membership of a party isn't really relevant and again doesn't translate into votes across voting population.

Yes, Labour a much larger than average party membership, along 600k I think, but they need to get millions of votes to win in a GE. To do that, they need to convert blue votes to red. It's been said so many times but people don't seem to hear it - if they can't do that they aren't going to win. It's that simple. This isn't spin or somebody's subjective and unverifiable opinion, it's fact.

'And I believe many voters who have never voted Labour before also voted for JC'

First-time young voters?

*has a much larger...

*around £600k

'To do that, they need to convert blue votes to red'

But that can be done, just as Blair, called "Bambi" in those days, did it in 1997. People don't stay loyal to a party forever. They finally have enough as they did under Cameron when 20% of Tories switched to UKIP and thousands of Labour voters switched to SNP.

What will win it for Corbyn is better care for the elderly, better housing, investment in manufacturing and better-paid jobs, better workers' rights and outlawing of sharp employment practices, scrapping of tuition fees and unleashing the potential of the entire population including the elderly by free lifelong learning and retraining, just as the Open University offered once when it was started by Labour.

A better life, better housing, better prospects and better care combined with swingeing pip-squeaking taxation of Blair'ites will win over Tory voters because most people are working and middle class and are all being squeezed. Only the Labour leadership, the Tory leadership and the media circles are the metropolitan elite.

How to you explain the results in recent local council elections.

The political class have all got "two kitchens", "two Jags" and God knows how many jobs and "directorships", and the working people haven't got "two pennies" to rub together and insecurity is rife and the precariat growing and people worrying and stressing about keeping their head above water while the champagne socialists and metropolitan elite party like its 1999.

"8 million people one paycheque away from losing their home"

england.shelter.org.uk/news/april_2013/8_million_people_one_paycheque_away_from_losing_their_home

If Corbyn reads the people#s mood correctly or if Momentum force him too, then lots of Tories will switch as well because everyone knows they are being screwed.

swingeing pip-squeaking taxation of Blair'ites

What does that even mean? Will the HMRC have to scrutinise people's voting history to decide what tax rate to apply to their income? This is tinfoil hat stuff.

And I believe many voters who have never voted Labour before also voted for JC

And...

I know of many people who have voted Labour all their lives won't do again whilst he is leader.

Sheffield. Labour stronghold. Lost to the Lib dems in August.

'How to you explain the results in recent local council elections.'

Low turnout, voter apathy. No one cares. People only vote on major elections to give the metropolitan elite a kicking hoping that they will wake up and change. The LibDems have a more committed local operation to get their vote out, that is the only way they get any publicity at all, because nationally they are not backed by the majority.

Anyone dismissing him as unelectable is in wilful denial.

No just very aware of history repeating itself here. Polls saying very he is (oh and before you start on the polls are always wrong bit they actually overestimate Labour % histotorically)

Or worse than that - outright deceit, which is the Establishment's usual modus operandi.

Right so those that think he is unelectable are now being decentfull... Right oh

But that can be done, just as Blair, called "Bambi" in those days, did it in 1997

That's an oxymoron, Blair was up against a stagnant Tory government, plus he moved to the centre, not further left, the fact blairite is used as a slur within momentum makes the comparison void, no?

There are lot of people loyal to the party, it's all well and good dragging the likes of swp/green members into the party but if you haemorrhage long standing members in the mean time it negates the point.

In fact it's the core loyal vote that he is losing, the mythical secret left wing in the millions that could swing the country and are just waiting for the opportunity are not there in reality, we are a social democratic country, not socialist

He is the most unpopular opposition leader ever. We are losing bye-elections and the polls are awful, particularly about him as PM. We should be way ahead on both at the moment. People taking note of those things are not the ones in denial. The number of members and supporters is utterly irrelevant if they don't convert to seats and in fact put people off.

I just watched the Panorama and Despatches programmes about Momentum from earlier this week. Dispiriting stuff. It is just as I suspected, a re-run of Militant Tendency from the 80s. The mainstream UK electorate will simply not vote for people like this. They wouldn't do it in the 80s and they won't do it now.

I live in what has historically been one of the safest Labour seats in the country. The demographics have been changing round here, but it was still a strong Labour win last time. If Vicky Foxcroft were to be deselected it might be a different story. I will most definitely not vote Labour if a Momentum supporter gets parachuted in, and I suspect I won't be alone.

'Blair was up against a stagnant Tory government, plus he moved to the centre, not further left, the fact blairite is used as a slur within momentum makes the comparison void, no?'

I am not in Momentum so I don't care what they say. Blair was right for the time - 1997 - which is why and I and millions of Tories switched and delivered a landslide victory for him. After 18 years, Labour finally won because Tory voters had had enough of the Tories, no other reason.

Blair went centre then because it was the right thing to do at the time, but it is no longer the right thing to do because Blairism is now a dirty word among Labour, Tory and LibDem voters. The only people who like Blairism are Cameron and the Etonians.

The centre has collapsed for a reason, the people no longer want it, they want change which is why the 172 centrists got so heavily defeated by the left wing former outcast and laughing stock, Jeremy Corbyn, because no one is laughing any more because he is now more in tune with the times and the people.

'but if you haemorrhage long standing members in the mean time it negates the point. '

We have witnessed a huge change, a huge disruption. The 172 don't like it and are struggling to adapt to it as are councillors and party old guard, but they will all have to accept that we are in a new era, the old days are over, Blair's speeches and Brown's stage strutting don't cut it any more, so older members will have to adapt to the real new Labour which is back to real old Labour because where else will they go. Will they be like George H W Bush and vote for Clinton instead of Trump because the centre has collapsed or will they work with the new reality or will they try to split and for a new centre? Times have changed, if they try to form a centre, they will be defeated because Tim Farron and the centre has collapsed, people now want real change, no more spin.

We have witnessed a huge change, a huge disruption. The 172 don't like it and are struggling to adapt to it as are councillors and party old guard

Or they have actually tried working with Corbyn and can't.

He isn't a leader.

His solution to the abuse female MPs are getting is 'just ignore it'

claig
'To do that, they need to convert blue votes to red'
But that can be done, just as Blair, called "Bambi" in those days, did it in 1997. People don't stay loyal to a party forever. They finally have enough as they did under Cameron when 20% of Tories switched to UKIP and thousands of Labour voters switched to SNP.

Well that certainly appears true for you, having read your threads extolling the virtues of different parties over the years but it certainly is not true for me. I am, have always been (and unless something seismic occurs) always will be a Conservative supporter, and the same goes for my friends. Even if the Tories did something horrendous which resulted in me deciding not to vote for them, I would NEVER vote Labour, or Greens with their batty policies or any other party.

'Or they have actually tried working with Corbyn and can't.'

Did you hear Andy Burnham today? He is one of the only decent ones left. He said today that now the party has to unite and that Corbyn was not given a fair chance after he defeated Burnham the first time around because people began opposing him right from the start. Now they have been defeated again. Now they have to work constructively. It is not their party, it is the members' party and the members have spoken.

'He isn't a leader.'

People don't want "leading", they want principled, honest, straight-talking politics. No one cares if Corbyn doesn't massage Owen Smith's ego by holding weekly meetings with him or any of the others who are campaigning with their rail leaflets or whatever.

People are sick of the lot of these politicians and are fed up of hearing the complain and opposing Corbyn while as Corbyn says real suffering is going on among the people who are losing their hoes, their jobs and are going to foodbanks etc. People have had enough of excuses by politicos, they want to see some action and they want Corbyn to get a grip and put the 172 back in their box in order to stop the sniping and create a proper united opposition.

'I am, have always been (and unless something seismic occurs) always will be a Conservative supporter, and the same goes for my friends. Even if the Tories did something horrendous which resulted in me deciding not to vote for them, I would NEVER vote Labour, or Greens with their batty policies or any other party.'

Yes because I am a real floating voter. I have no loyalty to Cameron, Blair, Eton or Oxbridge. I don't care who they are or what they are as long as they do the right thing. Most people still stick with their loyalties but ore and more have had enough and are switching as we have seen with UKIP and the SNP. As time goes on, more and more will have enough of what is going on and Momentu is a huge sign that the old days and old ways are finally over.

The centre has collapsed for a reason, the people no longer want it, they want change

I kind of see where your coming from, corbynistas and trump supporters have a lot in common, even if they don't see it themselves, and it's relevant that the right wing is gaining ground in Europe, people are looking for something different, however the big point is labour don't have some ordained right to be the opposition party, they can be wiped out.

Trying to shift the Overton window is all well and good, but there is going to be the opposite spectrum that also happens, so the centre is what makes the government.

You need to take your core support with you, not abandon them

Rorty I don't think anyone would expect dyed in the wool Tory voters to switch to Labour, that's not going to happen - the reverse is true as well, of course. It's the floating voters who win or lose elections for a particular party under FPTP.

"You need to take your core support with you, not abandon them"

Yes to this. If Labour lose their core support, they've had it. Scotland is a salutary example.

Sneering at them and then abandoning them is an even worse idea. Off to drown sorrows, pondering on Gasp's point about deselections. I would probably do the same - I wonder what that means for the Lib Dems if anything?

People don't want "leading", they want principled, honest, straight-talking politics.

Right so if he shows no leadership skills then how is he going to be PM.

Title is in the job, he is leader of the opposition. Simple as that.

No one cares if Corbyn doesn't massage Owen Smith's ego by holding weekly meetings with him or any of the others who are campaigning with their rail leaflets or whatever.

I do care if something is decided upon in a cabinet meeting then he briefs the media differently or when shadow cabinet ministers have to camp outside his office to get a party view on something.

That is either a dictatorship or downright incompetence.