Stop Corbyn Plan

[Redkite2015]

Only way to stop Corbyn from Labour leader is to cancel the election, re-invite the nominations and make sure that 'morons' don't nominate Corbyn again.

See the plot. AB camp is calling for urgent meeting with Labour HQ. Many genuine Labour supporters being denied vote. What else 'any one but Corbyn' can do now?

Not content with holding the 'protest against democracy' when the general election didn't go their way, lefty fuckwits are now trying to derail the democratic election of a new Labour leader.

You really couldn't make it up.

It's not the lefty fuckwits derailing the leadership election. Its the centrist Labour elites.

These Blairite elitist nob Tory-Lite centrists are precisely who will be overthrown.

The ex-Labour voter focus group we just saw on Newsnight was interesting.

Straggle, I didn't see it, what did they say?

Watch it here - it's interesting:

www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b067xc46/newsnight-28082015

At the beginning none of the candidates stood out for them, but after watching clips of speeches and interviews they formed a clearer view. They were split between Yvette Cooper and Andy Burnham but YC had the edge and was the most persuasive, with policies that were about families and pragmatic, though they weren't sure in the end it would sway them to vote Labour. None of them like Liz Kendall - they though she was llecturing them and quite boring. Most saw Jeremy Corbyn as divisive, bitter, good at opposing but bad at compromise and leadership, and therefore unelectable. One woman in the panel said she liked his principles but didn't think the country could afford them. A man though his policies belonged to the 1960s and would definitely put him off.

You could dismiss the panel as centrist Blairite Tory-lite elitist nobs and morons because they had voted for Blair, but have since switched their vote (probably mostly to the Tories), but that would be condescending and dismissive of what looked like fairly ordinary people representative of a large swathe of the electorate.

Thanks for the link straggle, that was interesting. And I could see why people preferred Yvette Cooper, based on the brief clips that were shown.
I thought they seemed like ordinary folk, far from elitist nobs. The Corbyn supporter interviewed afterwards wanted to dismiss the focus groups because they were from Croydon and Nuneaton. But those are the types of seats that Labour will want to win to be elected again. So there's no point dismissing their views.

And god willing squidzin, your 'sources' are right

And God willing they are wrong. Labour under Corbyn would be even less electable than it was under Foot and Kinnock.

I've voted -not for him.

thanks straggle

I really can't figure out what is going to happen. Couldn't put money on it, that's for sure.

however it works out, a split would be good for the electorate - having right, right-lite and left options to vote for - but I don't know what the practicalities are of splitting a party, i.e. who gets what in the event of a "divorce".

A split has been tried - the SDP - and the only result was neither party was electable under a first past the post system and the Tories gained even more popular votes let alone seats. I can guarantee the centrists will not split but some may give up it exit politics altogether. Which is not healthy because we are losing experience and talent. Really interesting comment on YC by that rather sharp woman who said she thought she was dumbing herself down - Yvette is a bright woman from a comprehensive who has studied at Oxford and Harvard but isn't giving much of that side.

straggle, that was more than 30 years ago, the political landscapes can't be compared.

if the right-lite are going to insist that the left drag them down and vice-versa, wouldn't a split solve that problem?

straggle, that was more than 30 years ago, the political landscapes can't be compared

Do you seriously think voters didn't vote for Labour because it wasn't left wing enough? You are right -a lot has changed in 30 years. I cannot imagine there is any appetite to go back to Labour being the loony left of the Foot years.

that was more than 30 years ago,

The voting system hasn't changed from first past the post in 30 years, but in that time (a) we have more devolution and the SNP so there is no guarantee of regaining 50 seats there, and (b) we'll lose over 20 seats in England &Wales with boundary changes which will favour the Tories. Minority parties get squeezed out. There can be no power sharing or coalition within a constituency. First past the post favours the largest party in every single seat. Government requires a majority or at best, coalition agreement. That won't favour Corbyn New Old Labour or Umunna True New Labour overall. But a coalition lacks all credibility. So an external split won't happen.

The Tories meanwhile may well elect a woman and Corbyn's leadership and party will look very male. If anything made me regard Thatcher as a human being rather than a monster it was sexist language directed at her by men. Another thing that hasn't changed in 30 years is that every single affiliated trade union is led by a man.

Straggle, I'll ignore the weird comments after your post, but will agree that the Newsnight focus group revealed how long standing, disenfranchised labour members probably prefer Y.C. She is in fact a strong contender.

If anything, the FPTP system will be changed I'm pretty certain within 5 years if you look at pressure from Farage, The Greens and now Labour.

So people predicting 100 years (or whatever) of Tory rule if Corbyn is elected need to remember that if PR is introduced we will be looking at closer coalition style democracy. Even if Labour splits, no one will be completely sidelined under PR.

Corbyn for leader, Labour splits, FPTP goes to the past, The Tories lose their grip, really the future looks bright. But we need to BACK the change.

Also, YC dumbing down deliberately is a 100% PR Advised consultation lead elitist deliberate mechanism.

The voice of the JC Labour left are constantly expressing a distain for Oxbridge, elitist, Westminster establishment PR MP's so it's no wonder she dumbed down. She needs to in order to gain any favour.

But it is false.

(PR in the first post = Proportional Representation
PR in the second post = Public Relations)
sorry

I think that's why her recent speech impressed the panel and surprised everyone - because while the Newsnight interview was the usual media managed sound bites, there was more intelligence, vision (whether or not you agreed with it) and detail in that speech. It swayed me. And I spent about two days being convinced by Corbyn and have since stared into the electability abyss and turned around. I'm concerned also about how in touch with the electorate his party really will be - lots of idealistic young people, but gender/age balance, regional demographics? My comments on unions are borne out of the frustration that while there are more women in unions than men, those unions are not represented among affiliated supporters because they do not donate political funds and they were not entered en bloc. So they are represented within the TUC but not the Labour selectorate. Jeremy Corbyn's views have not been received over-enthusiastically by teaching unions because a National Education Service sounds like the increasingly centralised system we have now and which does not take into account local community accountability.

On voting - the last referendum on changing the system was rejected by 69% of the election. It has to be changed by parliament itself which is ruled by the Tories. Turkeys do not vote for Christmas.

Changing FPTP was rejected by 69% of those who bothered to vote for it (note: not the whole electorate) because both Labour and Conservative campaigned so severely against changing a system which works in their favour. Scaremongering like "With people like Farage on the scene, do you want to give them any possibility of influence?" Ring any bells?.

But now Labour got wiped out, UKIP did far less than expected, Lib Dems obliterated, Greens disappointed, and as a consequence 74% of us got a Tory Govt we didn't want...

I see FPTP finally being overhauled. By (yes another) referendum.

Your other point regarding JC Views not being well received eg in teaching, the benefit of a JC lead Labour party brings all of his views to the democratic vote of all labour members (much like a Scandinavian model) so if his views are truly unpopular, they will never see the light of day.

the democratic vote of all labour members

And that's my point. Corbyn talks of converting the £3 sign-ups and affiliated supporters to full members. You mentioned turnout for the referendum: well the union vote in this leadership election was first 189,000 (though 40,000 rejected as already being full members or sign-ups). 189,000 levy payers is lower than the 2010 leadership ballot - when about 10% of affiliated union members or something like a quarter of a million cast a vote. Unite alone is meant to have 1.3 million members. Even the wider membership - which does not represent teachers - is 2:1 male to female: the self-selectorate of levy payers is even less representative of the whole union.

I think that even if Corbyn doesn't get elected now, he's challenged the status quo. They have been seriously rattled by this.

The flip side is that a hell of a lot of us who have suddenly started taking Labour seriously again as a voice for ordinary people will be severely upset.

Interesting times.

It's hilarious isn't it. The reason those MP's voted to get Corbyn on the ballot was to open up discussion and to see if there was any public appetite for a move away from Blairite politics and a return to the left.

Low and behold that's exactly what has happened, the public see a politician who actually seems to want to do good things for normal everyday people and seems like a thoroughly decent bloke. Why wouldn't there be an appetite for this? Why do the PLP and Blair's cronies not understand why the public are crying out for a move away from their bullshit.

Labour party supporters are saying "This is what we want" and the party are telling us "No, you want something else."

Every Labour supporter I know is voting Corbyn, every single one of them. Where the party get the idea that this will be a fixed result from is beyond me.

If they cancel this vote or find a way of getting Corbyn off the ballot I will walk away from the Labour Party forever. It will make them worse than the Tories in my mind.

They thought they could trot old Corbyn out and everyone would laugh at him and his silly ideas for social justice, then we would happily follow the party further right.

Oooops

Thing is, none of the other candidates is likely to deliver a Labour government in 2020, so why not give JC a go? Worse case situation, Labour end up with even less seats at the next election, he gets sacked, we go through this all again (how bloody dull!?) and the left shuts up for a bit. Or he'll win some seats and scare the Tories.

Cancelling the election and starting again will just be a gift to the Conservative party, if Labour can't even pick a leader, how the fuck could they hope to run the country? Would be a gift to the right wing press, anyone who won the Leadership election after that would be taunted that "they are only the leader because they cheated Corbyn" and while the farce continues, there is no opposition.

Cancelling the election and starting again will just be a gift to the Conservative party,

They won't do that if they have checked every voter registration and he still wins. But what might happen is:

• initial solidarity (this is a Labour value) and it may go surprisingly quiet for a time
• a challenge in a year's time after his showing in local and regional elections
• a focus by the press on his shadow cabinet, some of whom may disappoint or go rogue and there will be an obsession with his successor and the independent power of his deputy
• scrutiny of NEC members and how much power goes to union leaders in view of the contradictions of new 'power to the members' as well as 50% quotas for committees and shadow cabinets
• compromises that he makes as a result of the above
• he might resign.

There will be surprises and disappointments though. All political careers end in failure, if you think about it - Corbyn will not have experienced anything like the pressure and stress of such a position.

Were any of you old enough to vote in 1983? The way you are just dismissing the results of the focus groups is astonishing.

To win Labour needs to get these voters back, not alienate them with old nonentity Trot Corbyn. Preaching to the converted is pointless.

I can't remember which poster said this but "a focused, united Tory Party, led by a 49 year old George Osborne (most likely), versus a grey-haired pensioner who gets rattled by being chucked soft ones on C4 News? C'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas la guerre: c'est de la folie."

Or turkeys voting for Christmas.