Another Angry Voice: UKIP are not an "Alternative"

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Hardly a day goes by without some delusional person completely ignoring the subject of the item I've shared to enthuse that UKIP are an "alternative" to the corrupt political establishment.

In this article I'm going to explode the myth that UKIP are an "alternative" and conclude by providing a list of genuinely alternative political parties and organisations.

anotherangryvoice.blogspot.co.uk/2014/02/ukip-alternative-delusion-neoliberal.html

People should be allowed to vote for who they like without being made to go on a guilt trip. A friend tried this on me and it hasn't worked. If I want to vote UKIP I will. But I do agree it is a protest vote in that some people don't like the look of any of the main parties.

Did you see Kinnock? He thinks one or two Labour voters will vote UKIP. He hasn't got a clue, in his ivory tower. No wonder Labour are leaking votes faster than a shipwreck.

Viviennemary, one day the privileged elite may be forced to give us proportional representation when it becomes clear that people no longer have faith in them.

Then it won't be a protest vote and the elite will not hold power again. It will be a real democracy and the people will have the power.

There will no more Baronesses implementing climate policies in the EU for us.

Well, that was a surprise! That documentary was actually quite fair and didn't seek to represent Nigel in a bad light at all. It made him seem very genuine.

I didn't agree with theur analysis that UKIP voters just want a return to a gentler 1930s/50s way of life. UKIP was primarily an anti-EU party and that's why its original members joined.

Perhaps C4 are hedging their bets

UKIP are having a public meeting this week in my constituency with the Deputy Leader taking part. I have not been to a political meeting since the Referendum Party was in existence back in the 90's. All three main parties don't bother to hold such meetings as they say their is no demand. Well I shall go along and see just how great the public's demand in my area actually is for polictiacl debate.

Kelvin McKenzie said "it's too late" for Cameron

at my typos and grammar above - not good.

claig Sorry, but nothing the vile McKenzie says is worth tuppence. (Not that I give a toss for Cameron.)

ohmymimi, he must have a political nous as he has been in papers for a long time, so I think his view may be important. He is probably more "in touch" than Cameron. Although Kelvin was in favour of complete open door immigration, so he is "out of touch" there. So you are right, he may not know what he is talking about.

Just caught up with the part of that documentary I missed and was shocked at Alibaih-Brown. She's a political commentator who admits she doesn't know the first thing about EU governance and then went on to say that the media should effectively deny UKIP the oxygen of publicity

So you treat UKIP as Mrs Thatcher tried (and failed) to treat the IRA

Is that how 'liberal' minds work?

Also found Oakshotte's comment about the lack of reporting in the UK about the EU's power brokers - you,know, the ones that actually make all these laws that wehave to comply with, rather ironic. Isabel dear, you are a reporter, why don'y you try doing some reporting of it.

Starting to realise just how right James Goldsmith was when he said we were sleep-walking into a European Superstate. Where is the scrutiny?

But the best part of that documentary was seeing what a lucky escape we all had from a potential Neil Kninnock Premiership. Watching him try to defend the absnece of democratic power in the EU was just stomach-churning.

UKIP will be a flash in the pan that will be firgotten very soon after the May 2015 elections. But perhaps some of the interest in the EU that it stirring up in a very comatose UK electorate may outlast the party.

I hope so.

'Is that how 'liberal' minds work?'

Yes that is how they are. It is based on absolute fear that their party will lose and "working class people" will vote differently to how they are expected to. It is understandable. Liberals know that their entire edifice is built on sand - that is why they created "political correctnesss", to try and prevent free speech.

UKIP won't be a flash in the pan. Most people are not really that interested in the EU, because they don't really understand how we have a puppetocracy who are just puppets to these unaccountable nameless, faecless minions in the EU, who themselves are just puppets of the bankers and elites. Most people will never truly understand that.

But they are sick to death of political correctness, spin, lies, nanny state, big state control and green crap and want less immigration in order to protect jobs etc. The established parties will never be able to offer real solutions to those problems because they can't since they are puppets of the corporates. That is why UKIP will grow and grow.

Finally we will have to have proportional representation and then it will be over for the puppets.

Farge goes regularly to the George and dragon. he speaks regularly to ordinary people. he has a laugh with ordinary people. he listens to what they are saying.

Cameron, Cleggy and even Miliband don't. They move in different circles, They meet the Baronesses and media moguls and the Oxbridge and Eton set and the intellectuals and luvvies and actors etc. They don't really understand what ordinary people feel and even if they did understand, they are not allowed to deliver solutions for them because puppets only have so much freedom.

Watch Cleggy on Wednesday. I bet he will try to challenge Farage over what he said about Putin. His masters will like that. But, at the George and Dragon, Farage knows that people are not against Putin. They don't think it is any of our business, unlike every Eurocrat and puppet of the corporates.

Yes, it's surprising that the EU hasn't forced PR onto us for our national elections. Strange that

The documentary was also interesting on the subject of racism. So that's why they are so keen to accuse UKIP of racism - racist parties don't get elected.

I felt very sorry for Bill Cash in that documentary. He was instrumental garnering opposition to the ratification of the Maastricht Treaty. I thought it was quite humiliating for him to be told he had put party before country. But I guess there is some truth in that. I swore never to vote for any candidate of any political party, who voted for Maastricht.

This is one of the more intersting periods in recent political history. The Scottish Referendum is by no means a forgone conclusion. If Cameron loses that one the fallout will be nuclear! He'd be out on his ear overnight!

UKIP will probably have the most MEPs in May but, as Fargae says (ang Kinnock confirmed) it's a toothless Parliament anyway. I just can't see the effect lasting to May 2015. I've seen this all before with the Referendum Party which was stuffed full of ex-Tories (well not exactly ex as many of them went straight back to the Tories after the election).

But, looking a the Twitter trails of some of my council's UKIP members, there are a surprising number of young people being politically awakened now. The problem is that UKIP's popularity is based around Nigel.

Nige is on the way to becoming a national treasure. Actually answering questions rather than evading them all the time. No wonder the other political parties are getting nervous.

Exactly, Viviennemary. Nigel says what he thinks, he doesn't duck tough questions, even when he knows that Cleggy and the chums in all of the media will say that what he says is "outrageous" like hey said when he said that "the EU has blod on its hands".

Nigel has no fear of them because he knows that the ordinary people in the George and Dragon agree with him, because he listens to them.

'I felt very sorry for Bill Cash in that documentary. He was instrumental garnering opposition to the ratification of the Maastricht Treaty. I thought it was quite humiliating for him to be told he had put party before country.'

No, I didn't feel sorry for Cash one little bit. I watched the longer clip at the time on Newsnight. Nigel put him in his place and rightly so. He didn't want to shake hands on camera with Nigel and Nigel showed him up for what he was. He told him he never "had the balls" to stand up and he put his party before his country.

You either believe in something or you don't and if you don't, you deserve to be called out for it. Nigel didn't spend 20 years in politics being ridiculed just to get a salary. He believes in something and that is why people believe in him.

'The Scottish Referendum is by no means a forgone conclusion.'

Yes. The conspiracy theorists say that the EU's plan is for a breakup of nation states into smaller units that are easily controllable by Brussels at the centre. Many of them believe that Scotland will break away, as amazing as that is.

'But, looking a the Twitter trails of some of my council's UKIP members, there are a surprising number of young people being politically awakened now. The problem is that UKIP's popularity is based around Nigel.'

It is a snowball effect. There are millions of people who will not yet vote UKIP because they think they will not be able to get in power. But month by month, more and more people have had enough of teh spin of teh other parties and UKIP is growing. Eventually, they will reach critical mass, and then they will be unstoppable as millions join in and vote UKIP.

Nigel is great. But there are great women candidates - Diane James, Lisa Duffy, Suzanne Evans, Boers (can't remember her name) and not one of them is politically correct. It is brilliant. They are better than the old men. The danger for UKIP is if they grow too quickly and let politically correct ex-Tories or Labour types in. As long as they remain the real outsider party, they will represent the public and eventually get into government.

The conspiracy theorists say that the EU's plan is for a breakup of nation states into smaller units that are easily controllable by Brussels at the centre.

It's not a conspiracy, it's been published EU policy for over a decade. They want areas to have their own governance, a bit like the German states. They even offered it to I think it was the North East of England and they said No Thanks. Classic divide and rule by Brussels.

I don't share your snowball optimism Claig. We had a sort of reverse snowball in Major's last election when you could not find a single person who would own up to being a Tory, yet he was elected. People may set out with intentions to change their voting pattern, but faced with a ballot paper they just can't bring themslves to change.

Many, if not all UKIP will be exTory or exLabour. I can't imagine they have any ex-LibDems.

I am still uncomfortable that the party has abandoned it's single issue manifesto. I feel the original and true purpose of the party to leave the EU has been hijacked by what is now the Popular Front for the Removal of all Establishment Politicians.

You are right, the EU plans are well known.

I remember that Major election. It was a shock. I was glad and a colleague at work was devastated. She said it must be a fix, and it was difficult to explain how it happened.

'Many, if not all UKIP will be exTory or exLabour'
Yes, but so far Nigel and co have made sure that there are no politically correct ones. If that lot enter teh party, then they are finished, because they will be no different to the Tories and Labour. That is the greatest danger for UKIP.

The Establishment and the elites do not want to leave Europe ever. They are puppets of a bigger elite who has planned the European project for decades. Soa single issue party would have been ignored and laughed off as UKIP were for years when they were called "fruitcakes" etc.

It is only in the last 5 years that UKIP's fortunes have been transformed and really only since last year's council elections and that is not because of Europe nut because the public have had enough of the other parties. It is now the People's Popular Front for the Removal of all Establishment Politicians and that is the public mood and that is why it is successful. The more successful it becomes, the more chance that its European policy will be successful and the more chance that public opinion will be represented on all issues.

Lord Ashcroft has got it spot on in my opinion. It is this issue of "political correctness" that is driving UKIP's success. the public knows the other parties are spinners and no longer represent the views of ordinary people. It is UKIP's attitude, their outlook, their anti-politcal correctness stance that is attracting millions to vote UKIP. That is why policies are not the main issue and it doesn't matter if the manifesto is "drivel". As fareg said on TV, the public knows what UKIP stands for. It represnts the public's attitude.

"Lord Ashcroft: voters defecting to Ukip because they are fed up with political correctness "

"However, he said Ukip's general outlook, rather than policies, is driving support

"Certainly, those who are attracted to UKIP are more preoccupied than most with immigration, and will occasionally complain about Britain’s contribution to the EU or the international aid budget," Lord Ashcroft wrote on his ConservativeHome blog.

"But these are often part of a greater dissatisfaction with the way they see things going in Britain : schools, they say, can’t hold nativity plays or harvest festivals any more; you can’t fly a flag of St George any more; you can’t call Christmas Christmas any more; you won’t be promoted in the police force unless you’re from a minority; you can’t wear an England shirt on the bus; you won’t get social housing unless you’re an immigrant; you can’t speak up about these things because you’ll be called a racist; you can’t even smack your children.

"All of these examples, real and imagined, were mentioned in focus groups by UKIP voters and considerers to make the point that the mainstream political parties are so in thrall to the prevailing culture of political correctness that they have ceased to represent the silent majority "

He identified the typical Ukip voters thinking "Britain is changing for the worse".

"They are pessimistic, even fearful, and they want someone and something to blame," he said. "They do not think mainstream politicians are willing or able to keep their promises or change things for the better. UKIP, with its single unifying theory of what is wrong and how to put it right, has obvious attractions for them."

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ukip/9752197/Lord-Ashcroft-voters-defecting-to-Ukip-because-they-are-fed-up-with-political-correctness.html

'They do not think mainstream politicians are willing or able to keep their promises or change things for the better'

It is even worse than that. We even think that they are not allowed to. That is how bad it has got.

It wouldn't matter if Farage went into the election with no manifesto at all. People would still vote UKIP to get some change.

My prediction is that they will try to dig up any dirt they can on Nigel. I bet they have armies at this very task now. People are tired of the same old faces. I agree UKIP doesn't need a manifesto. They just need to be Not Labour, not Tory and Not Lib Dem and that'll do for a lot of folk. At the present time in any case.

Getting a bit carried away there peeps.

Of course Farage is ‘different’ to those in parliament and other leaders; he is NOT IN parliament or will ever be in a position of power, so he can spout whatever populist mantras he likes, it will never come back to bite his (or Ukip’s) ass.

Like come on, if a party that has been around 20-years and they still didn’t manage to get out a manifesto in 2010 they still stand by, on DOMESTIC issues that effect nearly every moment of OUR lives, rather than the EU way down on peoples priority list - and STILL get voter support - then the voters REALISE Ukip is different now, but that don’t mean they’d ever trust the goon to run the country.

When voters just want a parliament implementing populist measures i.e. no taxes, an evergreen government money tree, public services twice as good as now, a guaranteed home for everyone, then to get the same result on those issues, we might as well forget Ukip and place over 600 village idiots in the House of Commons.

Rumour has it, in the real world, there is more to running a country than being jovial and having a pint in your hands. Someone said a while back after the crash something like ‘this is no time for novice’s’, and that was to a political party that had a record of rescuing a country/economy.

For those thinking that a one-policy-pony Ukip has all the answers to our domestic polices, with or without a £100 billion annual budget deficit, is BEYOND the joke on their supporters, now the rest of us have to be party to it – and even thinking that the clowns will have an influence in the next General Election, frankly saddens me on the gullibility of ‘the people’.

'we might as well forget Ukip and place over 600 village idiots in the House of Commons.'

We have already tried that and it is not working

at claig

Vivienne-

People should be allowed to vote for who they like without being made to go on a guilt trip. A friend tried this on me and it hasn't worked. If I want to vote UKIP I will. But I do agree it is a protest vote in that some people don't like the look of any of the main parties.

You should feel guilty about voting for or supporting UKIP, because UKIP are a racist party, and racism is wrong.