Any UKIP supporters on here? What exactly are you voting for?

[chicaguapa]

I confess I don't know what the UKIP policies are, but wondered if the people voting for them could explain to me what they are please. Thanks.

totally outing yourself there, 2bean!
I was looking at Lincs results & noticed the Boston concentration.
I'm sure there are some sane people in UKIP. Law of averages, and all.

'Parental leave' rather than 'maternity leave' would be a good thing. Why should women have to take the time off?

This is one of those things that are seen as 'unfair' by some people. The mother takes 12 months off (is that the max?) 9mths paid, 3 not. She is now 12 months out of date on return to work, and perhaps her pay and chances of promotion suffer. She isn't necessarily biased against, just not competitive.

A mum/dad combo of 4 - 6 months each on the other hand shouldn't affect their competitiveness nor their companies, bearing in mind they have to get a temp in sometimes.

Strawberry, you wont get an answer on that, it was I who challenged it. It was what I like to term as 'trigger post'. The poster was hoping to trigger outrage at a party manifesto legislating for women out of the workplace... which UKIPs manifesto doesn't do.

I don't even support UKIP, but I can read!

'jaywall Sat 04-May-13 19:12:42

Dawndonna,

My personal views are that they should feel valued. Can you share a link to whatever it is you are talking about?'

The link is in her post mate. You didn't mention, specifically, that disabled people should feel valued.

Try to get a comprehensive list in next time, I know it may make the post a bit big but hey ho.

There is no link in the post i replied to, would you care to post one LazarussLozenge ?

I don't see what you are getting at at, what comprehensive list?

'2old2beamum Sat 04-May-13 19:21:48

Please don't chuck me off MN I am a Socialist honest.
OH the shame.'

I feel your shame, but I doubt the MNHQ will kick you off for being a socialist...

My step sister and her 2 daughters have been elected as UKIP councillors in Boston

Why do you think that happened, then.

PS. Yay, another MNer in Boston.

jaywall

Their national manifesto clearly states they want to treat any EU immigrants who arrived after 1st April 2004 the same as citizens from other countries, unless they have permanent leave to remain.

They also say that immigrants (including those with permanent leave) should not be entitled to benefits.

So in my case, (having arrived in 2005 and contributed since) I've got every reason to find their policies concerning.

It's on page 5 of their manifesto, I won't link, but you can easily find it on their website

From the manifesto.

'7. EU citizens who have been established in the UK for seven years or more will, depending on their circumstances, be able to apply for permanent leave to remain (provided they fulfil certain criteria and are eligible to apply for work permits).'

You've been here over 7 years, would imagine as you have contributed since you have every reason not to be that concerned... yes, I appreciate the uncertainty.

All you seem to be affected by is a further five year freeze on citizenship.

Promise to abide by our rules (Can't fault that I am afraid), be on permanent leave to stay for five years, and you can apply for citizenship.

Why haven't you applied for PLTS if you want to be here that much?

Lazarus - the manifesto says clearly that people with permanent leave to remain should have no rights to benefits either.

As for why I haven't applied for Leave to Remain - I'm a EU citizen, so there is no need to apply for it. Farage and his lot want to remove that, but until that happens, why should I clog the UKBA's work backlog with my application.

Only if I wanted to support the application for a residence card of a non-EEA family member, I would need it, otherwise

I would have long applied for citizenship, but I currently don't have a spare £1k kicking about.

To all who understand my shame What happened you may well ask her mother who my DF married (the bitch) so no genetic link( phew) My DF was a communist in 1950's but then became a socialist. DSM was out for everything she could get who was labour until DD got up the arse about immigration. Can't see her or DD's working in the fields.

Just another point (relevant) she stood in my kitchen and said she would abort if she had conceived a baby with Downs in front of my 3 Downs children I have not seen her since.[anger]
Yes her DD is Felicity

WidowWadman, if we are going to discuss this then lets not be disingenuous. The paragraph you mention is from the 2010 manifesto which has been superseded by the 2013 manifesto. It also is not quite as you insinuate;

Ensure all EU citizens who came to Britain
after 1 January 2004 are treated in the same
way as citizens from other countries (unless
entitled to ?Permanent Leave to Remain?). Non-
UK citizens travelling to or from the UK will
have their entry and exit recorded. To enforce
this, the number of UK Borders Agency staff
engaged in controlling immigration will be
tripled to 30,000

Bear in mind this was in 2010 and is now effectively a 7 year trailing date. I don't think that is unreasonable,

2old2beamum

What has the Downs comment got to do with UKIP? It just means the commenter is not a nice person.

There is no policy on aborting such babies, but I believe a UKIP councilor has said he believes Downs, Spina Bifida and one other I can't remember should be aborted. I read it in a article I've read.

But that is that. A personal opinion. Unles UKIP put that in their manifesto, it isn't UKIP opinion.

And people abort babies just because the baby is 'inconvenient' at the moment.

We were offered a test to find out if we had a Downs baby (at least poss more), I believe it was offered so we could either prepare or abort. In Germany BTW.

My wife and I decided against the test.

The 2010 manifesto is the last national elections one. Their local manifesto doesn't have much detail about what they want to do to EU citizens.
Also, if it was superseded, why would it still be published on their website as their national manifesto.

You cut your quote too early, too. It goes on to say:

" Require those living in the UK under
?Permanent Leave to Remain? to abide by a
legally binding ?Undertaking of Residence?
ensuring they respect our laws or face
deportation. Such citizens will not be eligible for
benefits."

Widow is correct though.

During PLtR benefits wouldn't be available. Only a citizen would receive them (by birth or process).

I don't think that is fair TBH. If a person is contributing, NI/tax contributions, then why should they be denied support/med care (free) if they need it?

WidowWadman,

Yes it does go on to say that further down the page. And it seems very reasonable to me.
If someone wants to come and live here, they should respect our laws. Do you disagree ?

I also think it reasonable that they have the means or opportunity to provide for themselves. Again, this is not unreasonable.

The more we talk the more convinced i am that UKIP have sound, reasonable policies in place, and they also have the 1 policy that makes me want to vote for them, a big No to European socialism.

jaywall Where have I said that people shouldn't abide laws? Who is disingenious now?

As for means and opportunities to provide for themselves - why do you think it's fair someone should pay the same taxes and NI contributions as a citizen, but not get the same entitlements in return?

Jaywall, I was referring to the fact that the UKIP manifesto states that it wants to 're-examine' community care and support congregate communities for the disabled.
In other words, out of sight, out of mind.

'Re-examine community care and support congregate communities for people with learning disabilities'

Where does it say 'out of sight, out of mind'?

Oh, that is a direct lift from the UKIP national manifesto for 2013 by the way.

If you took a little time off from being right and expended a little of that energy on learning some sort of moral philosophy, you may be able to work it out.

Précis of UKIP manifesto:

Basically, you know the 1950s? That.

You've taken ONE sentence, and extrapolated from it.

If you read the in depth medical policy, you'll notice the word you highlighted 'reexamine' seems to indicate just that. Reexamine community care and support congregate communities.

They are actually expecting people who know about community care and its alternatives to aid them. They are a small party so the expense of formulating such policies is probably high enough to mean their policies are a bit fuzzy at this time.

The supporting of congregate communities, I assume (unless evidence to contrary appears) they would like to support them. There are a fair few already in existence, usually run on a charity basis.

It doesn't seem to include squirreling them away, so no one can see them. Certainly the one I have first hand experience of was hidden away, but had community/supported homes in a local town, and there was plenty of visits and socialisation. The school they were in just happened to be in the countryside - lovely location though. I think the building and grounds was gifted to the charity by the owner... I supose they could have said 'no, we want a more city centre location'.

or www.camphill.org.uk/about I refuse to believe all 24 of these locations are in the sticks.

I don't set out to be right all the time... I just read the facts, rather than unleashing my righteous indignation at a perceived slight.

Until tonight I hadn't read the UKIP policy, but now I have...

pickled,

There is a strong sense of 'going back to what worked'.

Open, unapologetic racism, limited life options if you didn't have a penis, no protection from domestic violence and marital rape, unequal pay for women. Hunky dory.