Justice for Men and Boys - Isn't this exactly why we need feminism

[wickeddevil]

Heard Justice for Men and Boys Founder Mike Buccanan on Womens Hour earlier today complaining that men pay 72% of all income tax.
Well isn't that because they have more income?
And instead of complaining about the feminist agenda doesn't it demonstrate why we need it?

[seeker]

The "cry for help" thing is questionable. As I said, more women than men attempt suicide.

[Pan]

The 'attempted' analysis is much less sure-footed i.e we really don't know ultimately, do we?
Overall though the 17.7 in 100,000 stat is desperate. Every 'early' death has a ripple effect affecting so many people, but it seems to be a rate society accepts.

[ElBurroSinNombre]

seeker,

The logical conclusion of what you are saying is that women are incompetant at comitting suicide in comparison to men. Is this what you really mean?

[Pan]

and who did all the reporting/deleting? The thread is looking a bit..well..threadbare.

[seeker]

No- men tend to use more "violent" methods. " No return" things like guns and hanging. Women take pills.

Massive generalisation- but largely true.

[ElBurroSinNombre]

Pan,
That is why it is interesting. Would we expect such a gender bias in successful suicides? If not, can we explain it or has it been explained etc.

[seeker]

Oh, ffs- who on earth reported MB's posts? And why delete?

He'll be going on about being censored by the wicked feminists on some other site in a minute. And, god save me, he'd have a point!

[Pan]

seeker , please point to the evidence for this. I'd be happy to believe it, if there was evidence. It sounds at the mo like a cliche. My best friend chose to end his own life, and did so by pills. He is the only example I have knowledge of. So a survey of 1 is a bit limiting.

[ElBurroSinNombre]

I think I read most of what was on here and didn't see anything offensive. Perhaps a bit of name calling but fair play to Mike in that he didn't rise to it.

seeker - I think that you have answered your own question. No return means that you really want to die, other suicide methods leave the possibility / probability that you will survive. Why would there be a gender difference in these rates? - that is all I am asking and from a neutral perspective.

[pollypandemonium]

100% of all women go through childbirth. Men do none of that. It's unfair.

Men never suffer periods and only 10% of men suffer from foot deformity by wearing high heels.

It's unfair.

[Pan]

"100% of all women go through childbirth" - really?

The emotional well-being of men is, generally, in their own hands, and certainly nothing to do with female resourcing. IF we looked after ourselves better we wouldn't be having these stats - problem is getting the importance over to men.imho

[Pan]

maybe HQ could say a word about why MB was deleted so heavily?

[AnnieLobeseder]

Probably for promoting his own website and agenda.

[Pan]

oh I seeee. But then I couldn't see his website, or agenda, getting much traffic from here. He didn't even post in Dadsnet.

[seeker]

pan-just looking for the up to date and UK stats I've seen somewhere- I'll be back.

[Pan]

happy to beleive if it does show 'violence' or some such, seeker. But then even 'self-harmers' with knives can go 'too far' and not grasp the terminality of their actions.

[KateSMumsnet]

Hello all,

We deleted some of MikeBuchanan's post as they were promoting his blog and some of his books, which is against our talk guidelines. We've dropped him a line to explain our rules about advertisings.

Sorry for not explaining what we were doing at the time and for making the thread a bit Swiss Cheese like.

[Sunnywithshowers]

polly did you mean that all women go through childbirth? Because that's not true. Or did you mean that men don't go through childbirth?

Pan and seeker
It's not just the method of suicide. Men are less likely to seek help for
mental health issues, and more likely to have drug or alcohol problems.

www.mentalhealth.org.uk/help-information/mental-health-statistics/men-women/?view=Standard

www.mentalhealth.org.uk/help-information/mental-health-statistics/suicide/

It's a huge problem, particularly among young men. It has been argued (but I don't think it's mentioned in the links above) that our patriarchal culture actively dissuades men from talking about their problems. So they suffer in silence and ultimately are more likely to kill themselves.

Pan, I'm sorry for your loss. I've lost two friends to hanging - one male, one female. :(

[AnnieLobeseder]

The suicide issue again highlights how the patriarchy hurts men as well as women. Why some people think women are to blame for these issues and tightening up the patriarchy will help is beyond me.

[Pan]

Thanks Kate!

sunny - thanks, and I'm sorry too for your missing friends.

yes men are just less likely to seek help, for any probs., which is part of the explanation behind the disparity in male/female rates, and even when it's brought to their/our door it isn't accepted as relevant, or at least the importance of it is hard to make plain.

[Sunnywithshowers]

Hi Pan

Have you seen this charity? It was set up in 97 to address the high suicide rate in young men.

I'm sure I read somewhere that men in marriages are healthier than men who live alone, as they are more likely to get help from the doctor for health problems. I think we need to promote a culture where men see their own problems around health and mental illness as important, and where they feel that these problems will be listened to and taken seriously.

[Pan]

yes, sunny, thanks, in part of my RL we use some material from CALM with groups of young men and individuals. After the initial sniggering, it seems to be quite effective. Taking one's own life is just the final act of living miserably.

[TheDoctrineOfSnatch]

ElBurro, how is the logical conclusion that women are "incompetent at committing suicide"? What an odd phrase.

[ElBurroSinNombre]

The comment was made in answer to seeker. It was the logical conclusion of her statements;

The male suicide rate is higher - by three times.
According to seeker the rate of attempted suicides is higher amongst females (have not seen the stats to prove this) but take it at face value
She rejected the idea that some suicide attempts are 'crys for help'
Therefore, in seekers mind all suicide attempts are geniune attempts to end life
Yet the male rate is 3 times the female rate.

Why?

I should add that personally I do not agree with the statement and I do not think that there is a competition of suffering on things like this.
I just think that it is interesting that there is such a discrepancy and it is one that should be addressed in some way.

[pollypandemonium]

Although I try to be statistically correct you may have to have a sense of humour to interpret mine correctly. My post should have read:

100% of all people who give birth are women.

It's unfair.

Men never suffer periods and only 10% of men suffer from foot deformity by wearing high heels.

It's unfair.