Justice for Men and Boys - Isn't this exactly why we need feminism

[wickeddevil]

Heard Justice for Men and Boys Founder Mike Buccanan on Womens Hour earlier today complaining that men pay 72% of all income tax.
Well isn't that because they have more income?

And instead of complaining about the feminist agenda doesn't it demonstrate why we need it?

If Mike comes back perhaps he can tell us how many men in the UK are killed by their current or ex wives or girlfriends each year, how many are killed by women they know in some other capacity and how many are killed by women they don't know.

If there are any left, how many are killed by other men.

Thanks in advance.

The suicide stats have had me intregued so I started looking for the stats for Saudi Arabia - for obvious reasons. I couldn't find anything concrete but from what I read it looks like, even in Saudi men commit suicide more than women. As has been pointed out, men are more predisposed to violence on average and personally I think this is a more likely reason for the disparity.

Look at China ElBurro.

I've googled a 'suicide by method' and it breaks down by gender in the UK. It's from 2001, but I'd venture that it doesn't vary much, for the reasons mentioned by ElBurro. It's a small table and fairly easy on the eye.

here.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate

The list above is broken down by country and some give gender information. In all countries that give gender stats (bar one or two), men have comitted more suicides than women (per head of population).

I read somewhere years ago that, when women attempt suicide, they generally have an idea in their head of what they will / want to look like dead (self-objectification?), hence they are more likely to choose to die by an overdose. Conversely, men who attempt suicide simply choose a way they think will work.

Suicide by overdose is more likely to fail than some of the more violent methods of suicide, as it's harder to judge. This might be one reason why men are generally more 'successful' at killing themselves than women.

There are no doubt other reasons for the higher rate of male suicide (such as not asking for help, etc) but logic says two things;

a) Men are more prone to violence.

b) Men are less likely to have children depending on them who need them not to kill themselves.

Is there a gender difference in gun ownership/access?

I wish we could get stats on how many people feel like suicide then get past those thoughts and go onto happier lives. Surely the issue is how do we help people who feel suicidal stop feeling that way and moving on to better things? Are women better at getting over suicidal thoughts?

Or is society structured so men feel suicidal more often? That should be looked at if it is so, but male suicide rates are not linked to the socio-economic status of women surely????! Getting help to people who need it is vital - but don't make it a gender issue, both sexes have MH problems and both should be supported.

Or was he was arguing that paying higher levels of income tax makes you suicidal?
Very strange topics to string together.

I think you are under-estimating the brackets bit Beachcomber ie not asking for help, and struggling to accept it when offered. That over-rides the inclination to violence and the child responsibility element.

Is there a gender difference on prescriptions of the kind of drugs you can overdose on?

Well, it's a gender issue, generally imho in that men are MUCH worse performers at self-care than women are. Hence, as I'd said, suicide is the final act of living miserably.

But no, bugger all to do with resources allotted to women.

No desire to underestimate Pan - it just wasn't what my post was about.

I would be interested in any analysis/research of how socialization of women to accept/expect to put up with all manner of crap, that comes from our lower status in society, affects things like suicide rates.

Well, it does undermine what your post was about, tbh. Securing sources of emotional well-being, and men being 'their better self' over-rides your list of 2 factors all day.

I agree with Pan about self-care, which is why in general married men are in better health than single men.

And yes, absolutely fuck all to do with resources allocated to women.

Pan are you suggesting that men are not more prone to violence? Or that they are more likely to be children's primary carers?

Of course men not seeking or accepting help is important in male suicide - which is why I was careful to mention it in my post.

I think male violence is immensely important too in this issue that's all.

Beachcomber - of course I didn't suggest either of those things, I'm surprised you raise that?

Where men and women do the same job, men are likely to be paid more.

Women are more likely to be full time carers and do low-paid work such as cleaning.

In primary schools, teachers of both genders pay more direct attention to boys than to girls - studies have shown this.

Women who deny paternal access to their children are not behaving well usually - that is undeniable, however women are much less likely to abandon their children than men.

The proportion of women in the cabinet has gone down.The proportion of women in chief-executive roles has not risen for many years.

I raised it because you interpreted that I underestimate the phenomenon of men not seeking help and then said it undermined my post.

Studies have been done which show similarities in both social behaviour and elements of brain chemistry in men who commit homicide and men who commit suicide. Which, when one thinks about it, hardly seems surprising - they are both acts of extreme violence, one being against others and the other being against oneself.

The majority of homicides are committed by men and the majority of suicides too. Research suggests that these two behaviours are two sides of the same coin. The research is, of course, far from conclusive and the subject matter highly complex.

Anyway, I only raise the subject because posters like Mike would do better to fight against male violence in all its manifestations than play oppression olympics on here.

And studies have also been done which reflect that women are much more likely to consider their loved ones and dependants in the decision to end their lives or not.

Which again is hardly surprising as women are socialized to think about and take care of others.

Also to pick a method of ending their lives which is less gruesome to witness.

True. Some say that women think about 'their appearance' when it would really appear to be that they think about what the person who finds them will have to see.

Very interesting article on why men commit suicide more often than women. I don't think it is really about violence (since violence is an extrenalised form of aggression) whereas suicide is is an internalised form of self-harm based on powerlesness.

The article makes the point that attempted suicides are often a cry for help and that people sometimes choose a method that does not end up being fatal.

I think it is correct to point to a way of thinking and decision making that may be different.

' Murphy believes women are less inclined to commit suicide because their thinking is more inclusive. While a man might tend to throw aside seemingly peripheral issues to get to the core of a problem, a woman might take more things into account. She may continue to seek input and process problems long after the point where men decide on a course of action.

"She'll consider not just her feelings but also the feelings of others -- her family, the children, even acquaintances, and how those people will be affected by a decision like suicide," Murphy says. "A man is much less likely to take those things into account. He makes his decision, and it's about him, so he doesn't feel the need to share it with anyone else."

www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1998/11/981112075159.htm

I think it is fair to say that if suicide figures among men are higher then a greater proportion of suicide prevention resources might possibly be spent reaching out to men (by advertising campaigns or similar things) in order to try and influence the all-or-nothing type focused thinking that seems to lead them to take their lives more often.

The article mentions that women attempt suicide more often than men, but that more men commit suicide.

Claig the very definition of suicide is 'self-directed violence'

The CDC describe suicide as the leading case of violent death in the US.