Justice for Men and Boys - Isn't this exactly why we need feminism

[wickeddevil]

Heard Justice for Men and Boys Founder Mike Buccanan on Womens Hour earlier today complaining that men pay 72% of all income tax.
Well isn't that because they have more income?

And instead of complaining about the feminist agenda doesn't it demonstrate why we need it?

By the way, several people disagreeing with you, sharing their views and, frankly, generally treating you quite politely compared to some of the phrases you have used, is not ganging up. It's just that a lot of people on this forum disagree with you.

White Knight? Been watching too much CBeebies?!

Snoooort again.

As I said, I'm not a feminist, but I DO believe in equality for all, regardless of gender, age, skin colour, disability, sexual orientation...

Vadark: And the guy, well, what can I say? What an absolute hero of the day. He should be Knighted. Oops, sorry, forgot he's already a white knight and, shush, please don't tell him but I'm so, soooo envious that you all lurve him to bits. Jeeez.

But I thought you said all men were white knights and "the great protectors of women only" vadark?

So although I guess pan (kind of) had a point on the other thread about mra's taking the piss out of men who stick up for women on forums like this, I'm sure they can take it. NT's in good company- my dh thinks the same as him

And my boys would get an earful and then done if they ever dared to try to force a partner or ex partner to terminate against their wishes OR continue with a pregnancy against their wishes.

They would get the same if they tried to evade paying for their DC's upbringing.

And they would get me in their ear morning, noon and night if they ever walked away from their DC's and stopped seeing them.

As would my DD. Then again, that's far less likely as statistically, she is more likely to be the main carer.

Yes, we do all love NicholasT

It's weird, isn't it? The Abortion Act came in some 45 years ago, so we've all had plenty of time to get used to its provisions and indeed many of us have only ever had sex since it came into law. Nothing in it should be coming as a surprise to any man today as to how abortion decisions are taken. And yet...

I wonder if the necessary two doctors would really be signing off on an abortion if the woman was saying, "yes, accidental pregnancy, I want to keep it but the man doesn't and apparently it's only popping a pill so here I am." I think that they would not.

Right, Couthy?! DS wouldn't know what hit him if he ever behaved like that.

Crumbs, is this thread still rumbling on?? And it was so mercifully close to death on Thursday night I see!. Whilst deftly ignoring trolls, sabrina, yes the mockery bit re womens rights is fine (and rather over-emphasised on that tragic thread iirc) and I am sure NT couldn't give a stuff about it either.
Trolls/goaders - what are we doing with them? Really. HQ say 'report!'...well..'why? We seem to court some trolls/goaders for entertainment value.'

Well, that's the first time I've been heckled by an MRA. Being told by one to get educated is like being scolded by a toddler: ineffective but amusing. I already know why the West invaded Afghanistan. The government at the time refused to allow Western oil companies permission to build a pipeline across the country. If only they'd looked at history they could've saved billions of dollars and thousands of lives.

You'd really hate my son Vadark, he's rather more strident than I am. He has younger sisters, not that they need looking after, so he's seen first hand how young women get treated in public by some men. You'll probably hate his sisters too because they're proud feminists. They didn't know they were till a couple of weeks ago. All they want is equality, a level playing field, and they know that as things stand they don't have that, and that feminism is the only way it is to be achieved.

I don't post what I post to look good or to stick up for these women, heck, they're doing a great job of making you look like an idiot without my input. If you can't see why feminism is necessary then I suggest asking some of your female friends (assuming you actually know some and can talk to them) how equally they get treated at work or out in public.

Thanks CY, you know I love you too. Not long now, eh? 3 weeks is it?

To all of you who posted about being assaulted and raped. You always make me feel humbled and ashamed of my gender. (((Hugs))) to all of you.

'You always make me feel humbled and ashamed of my gender'

No. Really?

Vadark- I asked earlier what 3 laws would you implement if you could.

I'd also like to ask you, what specific things should I be teaching my nearly teenage son? Maybe three rules for life for boys?

I can't respond to every post. I started to, but it's painful and tiresome repeating the same old thing. I have had 20 times the amount of insults coming in my direction than I have sent in yours. Go back and count. The moderators KNOW that.

Regarding abortion, my point is this:

1 - It is BOTH the male and female's responsibility to protect themselves and each other.

2 - They BOTH have the ability to lie and apply trickery pre-sex.

3 - They BOTH run the same risk when it comes to an accidental pregnancy outcome.

4 - Now, this one is the clincher. WHEN/IF there is an accident, the MAN has little to no control from there on, whether that be in the eyes of society OR the law. Yet the baby, from conception thereon, is 50% HERS and 50% HIS.

I completely understand that the baby is inside of the woman and that it is her body but that is a biological fact that we can't get around. The fact is that, due to this, men are far more disadvantaged once an accident actually occurs.

If SHE want to terminate then SHE will, regardless of his thoughts or emotions. If SHE want to have the baby then SHE will have the baby and HE WILL have to support it in the eyes of the law REGARDLESS of HIS thoughts and emotions.

If HE wants the baby then SHE has the rights to terminate REGARDLESS of his needs. If HE doesn't want the baby then she can still go right ahead and have it regardless.

If you can't see how men are disadvantaged in the situation of an accidental pregnancy via lack of choice then, seriously, you need to rethink.

And just to make it clear, yes, I can totally understand that it is the woman's body and she has FAR more of a burden in going through a pregnancy etc. It's just that SHE has a choice and HE doesn't.

The point is that feminists REFUSE to even acknowledge that point and instead remain selfishly contained within their own remit to ONLY support the feelings of women and girls.

I DO support the feelings af women and girls in these cases but I also recognise and support the poor male who gets caught up in these issues.

And as a feminist, you simply say something like "Well, keep it zipped up then" and that is like men saying "well, keep your knickers on then". It' pathetic

Vardak- I can see your point-but surely it is just a matter of simple biology?

What would you like done about it? Is there, in your opinion, a solution? Or do you just want people to say "well, if there is an accidental pregnancy, it is a shame that because of the way biology works, women have more control over what happens next" I agree with that- it is a shame.

So, what is your solution.

Vadark, your post is a load of old flannel. You don't get to tell someone else what to do with their body - I'm sorry of you feel betrayed by human biology and laws safeguarding the choices of women regarding their OWN bodies - but that is the way it must be.

Unless you want to give men power over women's bodies? I think in view of the previous posts here, and previous threads on MN and rape statistics (denied and dismissed by the valiant vadark) that men have plenty enough power and control over women's bodies as it is.

Actually I do acknowledge that once a pregnancy actually occurs, a woman has more choice than a man even though both are equally responsible.

And that is how it SHOULD be. Because it's her body and she's the one who is risking the short, medium and long-term outcomes of pregnancy and birth.

Reasonable people accept that nature has made men and women differently.

Unreasonable woman-haters seek to even up the score by giving men rights over women.

Gosh ... just ... gosh.

Vadark is concerned for the well-being of our sons.

NicholasTeakozy is ashamed of his own gender.

Does this not prove Vadark's point? A generation of young men ashamed of being young men.

Not what I want for my lad.

Agree. Let's raise boys so they don't need to be ashamed of their sex anymore.

BasilBabyEater - you don't see anything imbalanced in your statement; "They want us to suck their cocks for eight hours and then make them a sandwich"?

Genuine question.

Ditto - Basil

Vadark - sex can lead to pregnancy - who knew?

Contraceptive services are available to both sexes - having worked in the healthcare profession it's true that more women access these services than men even though promotion has tried to get more men take responsibility for their fertility. I would like to see you campaign to get men understanding all the 4 points you have posted in your last post. Believe me we have tried - where are the men coming forward to work in such clinics, offer contraceptive advice, promote in schools?

Are there self-help groups for men by men when faced with an unwanted pregnancy/termination? Why are you insisting that women have to provide this help? We have a local fathers group that do this because a few dads got together and wanted to support each other and realized they had to get off their backsides and do something rather than wait for someone else to provide it.

One male friend ran an anonymous survey at university some 20 years ago about sexual habits of students for a study he wanted to add to his dissertation. This is only the gist as I remember it but it turned out that male students were less discerning about who they had sex with - that is they were less likely to turn the offer of sex down than the female students. Female students were more likely to receive offers of sex than male students. Reasons given for females turning offers down included considerations of unwanted pregnancy. No male student mentioned this in any part of the survey.

Yes I agree with your point of unfairness - however men are not ignorant of this point. So I look forward to a campaign where you promote males taking responsibility for their fertility - I'm sure you'll get support.

In fact why don't all porn sites have a disclaimer - Warning penis in vagina sex may result in an unwanted pregnancy - to get the message across?

Janetbb, what aspect of my belief that MRA's believe women are there to service men wd you like me to balance? What would you like me to balance it with?

Janetbb- Vardak is concerned for the well being of our sons- but he is strangely unwilling to be specific about why, and what he wants to be done about it. I have asked him several times, and he hasn't responded.

And the "ashamed of his gender" thing. Nicholas said that in reference to the many accounts on here of sexual violence. The solution is to make sure that our sons do not grow up thinking that sexual violence is OK. Simple really. Making them grow up as angry with women as the MRA are is probably not going to help with this........

I think women being in control of their own bodies, fertility and sexuality genuinely frightens some men. Men who have been brought up to believe that they are in charge, the breadwinner and so on, believe that part of this 'male privilege' is having a woman around to service him sexually, look after him domestically, cook and clean for him and have his children. Women breaking free from these domestic shackles, and taking charge of their own lives and bodies are seen as genuinely threatening by men like Vadark- but what he fails to realise is that there are already swathes of men who do not see things the way he and MikeB do - there are men like John O'Farrell (who totally pwned mike on that R4 interview, btw) who see women as genuine human being beings, with thoughts and opinions which are just valid as theirs, and do not simply see women's bodies as vessels for their 'male seed'. Btw John o'farrell was fantastic on Womans Hour - anyone who hasn't listened to it yet, should do. It's on you tube.

The 'logic' being given here as to explain that no matter what women do, it's all their fault and men have either the right to control a woman's body if accidental pregnancy occurs, as well as putting full responsibility on the woman to do with anything regarding child rearing genuinely frightens me.

MRA's with daughters.... It makes me extremely distraught to think about. :(

The next step (which we already see) Is men bullying women into abortions they don't want. Man is happy with a fat wallet, woman is deeply, deeply traumatised and never gets over it.

Hell will freeze over before someone else -man or woman- tells me what I am 'allowed' to do with my body.

These poor daughters of MRA's. They're in for a huge shock when the daughters who don't grow up brainwashed become strong feminists and disown them.

Not talking about the posters in these threads. While I find their views deeply, deeply unsettling I don't know if they have children. PA isn't for me. I'll tell you whether you're a cunt or not.

You always get some women who will agree with the MRA's - just as you got some women agreeing with that women shouldn't have the vote during the times of the Suffragettes. They often argue things like 'I like having doors held open for me' and ludicrous things like that - as if all manners and common decency will go out the window with equality.