Justice for Men and Boys - Isn't this exactly why we need feminism

[wickeddevil]

Heard Justice for Men and Boys Founder Mike Buccanan on Womens Hour earlier today complaining that men pay 72% of all income tax.
Well isn't that because they have more income?

And instead of complaining about the feminist agenda doesn't it demonstrate why we need it?

"Maybe let's not give this one the attention he craves?"

Is this a euphemism for 'our usual silencing tactics aren't working'.

not being a rape apologist doesn't mean I'm pushing propaganda. But thank you first answering my question

So, what is it that women can't do or have no choice in in today's western society. You know, the place that you actually exist? What can't you do that I can? List them.

I never answered anything. Pretend I did if you like, it's a reasonably common tactic, I've learned.

sigmund's a strange one. Always pops up on these threads and moans about 'being silenced' and 'worried for her sons.' As if feminism's going to eat men or something.

I thought Vadark would be too much even for her - his posts are imbecilic. But obviously not.

Anyone else hear that whining again btw?

If MRAs were to:

challenge the cult of hyper-masculinity and its associated violence
and
fight against gender stereotyping
and
get off their arses and fund raise for shelters/raise awareness for causes such as prostate cancer*

then most of the battles of their cause would be on the way to being sorted. Funnily enough, feminists have similar goals and so would be supportive.

Until MRAs start to do either of those, then I am largely a despairing observer. Feminists are not the enemy.

*my father has prostate cancer and, like his father before him, he is likely to die ^with it, rather then from^ it. Many comparative statistics I have read fail to make this distinction. My Dad sailed the Atlantic alone last year aged 68. He is the last person to compare himself to his many female friends and family who have had breast or ovarian cancer, some of whom are still struggling, the others having died.

It is kinda that val has just decided to go through old posts now since no one is talking to him. Like he has an invisible friend. funny he is getting "silencing tactics" as a rape denyer on a site mostly frequented by women, isn't it?

'As if feminism's going to eat men or something.'

No, it demonises men and portrays them as essentially bad. Vardark brought up some good points, you might spot them if you got over the fact that he's a man. That's unlikely to ever happen though.

And yes, I am worried for my sons, with good reason. Anyone who hasn't been indoctrinated into believing us poor wimmins have it tough (such an insult), can see that.

"As if feminism's going to eat men or something."

Feminism doesn't eat men. It uses men.

"I thought Vadark would be too much even for her - his posts are imbecilic."

I'm astonished that you can't understand my posts. They are in simple English. What you mean is that you refuse to acknowledge that men can be disadvantaged in any way. I guess that's just down to indoctrinated selfishness.

"Anyone else hear that whining again btw?"

Boring old shaming and insulting.

Feminism demonises men

But that is a very ironic statement to make in the context of this thread and Mike B's book cover. Let's remember how this started - Mike "I must google my own name quite a lot" Buchanan trying to flog his book and being given a platform by the BBC

running, it's more of a droning now, I think?

'What you mean is that you refuse to acknowledge that men can be disadvantaged in any way. I guess that's just down to indoctrinated selfishness.'

Precisely.

Btw, why shouldn't Mike B be given a platform by the BBC? He has formed a political party with a perfectly acceptable priority, i.e. to highlight and change the fact that men and boys are sidelined by today's society. Society is skewed towards women. I'm a woman and I can see that. Other women I talk to can see that.

A woman can do whatever she chooses if she works hard enough. All feminists want is for women to be cosseted and carried.

'running, it's more of a droning now, I think?'

That's a little goading, Sabrina. And a little girlish.

"If MRAs were to:

challenge the cult of hyper-masculinity and its associated violence"

When did you challenge the cult? Do you condone wrestling toys being sold in toy stores? You know, that sport where boys are encouraged to think it's ok for toned-up muscular men in their pants to smash chairs over each other's heads?

"fight against gender stereotyping"

Like men in adverts being made to look like idiots who can't cook, look after kids, make decisions etc.etc. ?

"get off their arses and fund raise for shelters/raise awareness for causes such as prostate cancer* "

I tried to get off of my arse and run in race for life. Guess what. They wouldn't let me run because I am a man and they are sexist.

"then most of the battles of their cause would be on the way to being sorted. Funnily enough, feminists have similar goals and so would be supportive."

Show me evidence of where feminism has helped the plight of boys.

"Feminists are not the enemy."

If feminists want true equality then show me their manifesto which supports females AND males equally.

"But that is a very ironic statement to make in the context of this thread and Mike B's book cover. Let's remember how this started - Mike "I must google my own name quite a lot" Buchanan trying to flog his book and being given a platform by the BBC"

Hey, listen, the next big thing will be overcoming militant, feministic propaganda and I'm sure the BBC will be interested. It's way overdue.

Nah - Mike will crash and burn faster than Veritas. Because he's talking a load of old tosh.

Sigmund - time and again you make vague references to society being 'skewed towards women.' Why? It's clearly not other women would be more represented in positions of power. And they're - er... not.

Many people are disadvantaged in society - mainly by the class system and the rich/poor divide, lack of opportunities in towns where industry has been shut down, and so on.

Feminism asks for gender equality - that is all.

You are fighting straw (wo)men.

There are threads upon threads on this very site about gender stereotyping, in toys, clothes and adverts. There are also threads on Race For Life, both here and easily google-able on others which explain why it is female only. Is there a reason, given the apparent demand, why there isn't an equivalent male-only event?

Feminism is about breaking down stereotypes, among other things like liberating women from male violence. What is in you that you can't see this?

I tried to get off of my arse and run in race for life. Guess what. They wouldn't let me run because I am a man and they are sexist.

Drone, drone, whine, whine.

Another doctrine? My round.

Somebody please list exactly what girls and women can't do in this country, that I can. What choices don't you have exactly? What job can't you train and apply for? Where are you demonised? Where are you made to look stupid? Come on, just a handful of things will do.

Better make mine a large one, running.

It's more of a buzzing now. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

"Nah - Mike will crash and burn faster than Veritas. Because he's talking a load of old tosh. "

IYHO.

"It's clearly not other women would be more represented in positions of power. And they're - er... not."

Did those women who are NOT in power choose to educate themselves and train to be in those positions? Were they good enough? Or did they take advantage of other life choices that they had available to them?

"Many people are disadvantaged in society - mainly by the class system and the rich/poor divide, lack of opportunities in towns where industry has been shut down, and so on."

100% agree. Now can you extend your thinking to include the possibility that men, too, can be disadvantaged. Or is that expecting too much!

"Feminism asks for gender equality - that is all."

No, not true, or else we'd see media coverage raising more men's issues. Feminism selfishly only includes female issues.

'Feminism asks for gender equality - that is all.'

And what exactly is gender equality? Is it a 50/50 split in the workplace? In ANY workplace? Even the shitty, seriously hard grafting jobs? Is it a 50/50 split in parliament? Women show a real lack of interest in becoming MP's, what are you going to do? FORCE women to do it? Put them through because they're women and not necessarily the best for the job (sorry, forgot, Cameron IS doing that)? Have 50/50 healthcare? Well that would be good because men's health issues are underfunded, I can't move for pink ribbon projects.

50/50 childcare? Women are the default carers are they? What does that even mean. Is there a single woman who would be literally FORCED to stay at home with their baby because that's what society says? What about the women who want to stay at home, and the men work and vice versa...how do you equalize that? Girls outperform boys in school and universities so I would agree that the school system needs to be less feminized.

How about a 40/60 split for provision of refuges for DV victims, that would be on the road to equality.

Is gender equality splitting everything fairly, or just the things that men do more of? You don't seem particularly concerned about the stuff women have more of.

Explain it to me...

"You are fighting straw (wo)men. "

Let's see who wins the "fight" in 10 years time shall we!

"There are also threads on Race For Life, both here and easily google-able on others which explain why it is female only. Is there a reason, given the apparent demand, why there isn't an equivalent male-only event?"

Yes, because women DO naturally support and protect each other. They also communicate better because men have been trained to "man up" and take it on the chin and basically men have had much of their emotions stripped from them as part of evolution. I guess that's life. Consequently men don't protect each other and instead they are instinctively taught to protect women, even at the expense of other men and even their own lives. They are taught that they are the disposable sex. You and I know that women can take advantage of that, and often do. I digress. Men doing something for themselves only would be construed as going against the grain of evolution, I suppose. So it is less likely that men will congregate and do something for themselves, hence, no race for life for men.

But feminist could help, couldn't they. I mean they have all the power of communication and companionship. Why don't they help? It's not because they're selfish is it?

"Feminism is about breaking down stereotypes, among other things like liberating women from male violence"

There is plenty of female on male violence in society but it goes largely unreported and unnoticed by the media. Take a TV drama, or film, or comedy. When a woman hits a man it is deemed to be funny. haha. But when a woman hits man, that's different, apparently. Why? Do you find it funny when a man gets hit between the legs? Also, when a man hits a woman on TV, he ALWAYS faces a consequence. Yet when a female hits a man...yeah, he deserves it, right?

Speaking personally I am very anxious for the stuff that women have more of to be opened up for men.

Which is why I am glad to see that there is some movement on the parental rather than maternity pay front. Unless more men engage in childcare, plans for women to take on demanding careers in politics and business are likely to lag behind. And men will carry on missing out on some of the good stuff in life.

I am also glad that women do now join the army and can fight in the front line, and that there are even women on trawlers these days (arguably the most dangerous job there is, with very little in the way of danger money).

As for needing an equal split in refuges for victims of domestic violence, I am still waiting to see the statistics of all these men being battered to death by their womenfolk.

Mmm , thanks!