Is there an 'underclass' on MN?

[wildswans]

I have name changed for this.

I have been on MN for about 6 months - off and on - and one of the most interesting aspects is the insight into people's lives and the contrasts and similarities. You can communicate with others you probably wouldn't meet in RL and in circumstances where they feel able to be completely open and frank about themselves, their families, their worries, their aspirations etc.

However, I can't help wondering if there is an 'underclass' who subscribe to MN. I have noticed, in particular, that any site which relates in any way to money or status - such as jobs and level of earnings and spending or whether a SAHM or WOHM - provokes very strong reactions. By this I don't just mean engaging in heated debate - which is part of the fun - but there is an undercurrent of envy and spite, which is very unattractive.

There are clearly a lot of high earning, highly successful women in MN and a number who have DHs who are well off. There are also lots who are earning less but do worthwhile and fulfilling jobs and others who are happy to care for their DC full time. Most MNs agree that it's all about choices and it doesn't really matter what you choose as long as it's right for you.

Yet the 'underclass' often seek to highjack interesting and constructive threads by pouring scorn on anyone who is a high earner, can afford tickets to the theatre (or even the zoo in one case!), or go on decent holidays. Presumably these are the ones who want the entrepreneurs to be taxed into exile and for a 'mansion tax' to be imposed. I can tell you that you don't get a 'mansion' for £2m in london or the South East, so what is that all about? In my view, it's nasty spiteful class envy and emanates from a small number of people on MNs who haven't achieved much in their lives so don't think anyone else should either.

Has anyone else reached this conclusion or AIBU?

Hate the term "underclass" :o

I agree, though, that this does happen often on this site. Can't make any sort of complaint unless it's about dire circumstances, otherwise you're told how dire things are for xyz and scorn is heaped.

The thing is, I know very well what it's like to be in those circumstances. Just because I am not any longer doesn't mean I can't still think it's unfair to have say, the child tax refund revoked for a family with one earner making 45k versus the family with two earners making 70k between them. (as an example! Don't start! )

I see far more council house and benefit envy on MN tbh.

er. I didn't really meant for that first smiley to be a big grin. Perhaps I need coffee.

What a horrible attitude.

Do you know what I don't get?

If I was in this position, I'd be thinking wow, aren't I lucky to have all this, isn't it great, what shall I do with my good fortune? (I don't necessarily mean charity, just thinking of all the things I could do like go on a nice holiday, eat out regularly, enjoy not having to worry about money, that kind of thing).

Can't say my first instinct would be to start a spiteful, snotty thread sneering at at people who aren't as fortunate.

But that's just me.

Oh seriously bugger off with your fucking mansion. The only thing I envy about you is your ability to float through life being so utterly self centred and dellusional with no thought for anyone but yourself. Mind you i'd rather be a decent human being than a stuck up cunt though.

The term underclass has poisoned any sensible point OP was trying to make. It's such an offensive term.

But.

I don't agree that posters are just 'pointing out' helpfully to higher earners that many are not so lucky.

I've seen people slated pretty roundly on threads where they did not boast or make crass statements at all.

Basically, for many posters, its fine to mention your income if its under x random acceptable amount, but if its over x amount, you are automatically crass and boastful just for mentioning it, even when it is directly relevant to the discussion.

I'm not saying its a majority of posters, it isn't. But its a significant minority.

TSC, perhaps I'm not putting myself across very well, happens a lot! Your last post is exactly the sort of thing I'm trying to object to.

No, I haven't lived on benefits, but that is because of what I was left and the opportunity that gave me. It wasn't much, and I still have to budget to be able to afford life, and I don't have any spare cash at the end of the month. Certainly can't afford to save, have to put off house repairs car repairs, etc etc. and that's no different to many other people, it's just that my low wage top up comes in the form of inheritance, whereas other peoples comes in the form of tax credits.

Of course people deserve enough money to live on. Please don't think I'm objecting to people getting support to live, I'm not.

I'm objecting to the fact that I have admitted I inherited and got met with a 'have you ever lived on benefits'? Yet someone with exactly the same income as me, exactly the same outgoings as me doesn't get that if any of their money came from benefits rather than inheritance.

I really find it hard to not entirely loathe people who crap on about paying too much tax or having a £2m home taxed.

There are plenty of countries around the world where you can be less responsible for the poor, do fuck off and live in one of those.

See that Karl Marx?

Jealous.

what a snotty post op

there is envy and disillusionment everywhere, not just here

you said "Most MNs agree that it's all about choices and it doesn't really matter what you choose as long as it's right for you."

the key word here is choose, for many of us choice has been taken away and we have to live with whats left, and make the best of it

you reek of snobbery and entitlement

Tax is to punish the rich, OP? Really?! Are you totally, totally stupid or just determined to be offensive?

There is a lot of misplaced council house envy on here, but what does that tell you?

Perhaps that being a homeowner isn't as great as its made out to be? Perhaps that being a homeowner is expensive and can take away disposable income that council house tennants don't have to worry about?

People in council houses are as lucky as homeowners, one is not more worthy of sympathy and understanding than the other.

I do think tax policy has moved in a way that makes higher earners behave irrationally. Eg the 50% tax will make people who were never tax avoiders be more likely to get involved in a dodgy scheme. Even more mundane things like lots of people I know have in the past week suddenly paid £160k into their pension pots to make sure they get the tax reliefs for the last 4 years secured before Budget day.

Yes, novice it'a amazing how greedy some people are. Give them a massive wage and they still want to keep more for themselves.

Two points re tax: IHT does not tax the dead. It taxes the unearned income of the living. It is not possible for a dead person to pay tax.

Conversely, having an expensive house does not necessarily mean you have a lot of money. My folks bought a family house donkeys years ago, before the boom, for about 15k, its now worth probably 400k or something. But my parents have always been low to middle earners, and that hasn't changed because of the madness of house price rises.

Sure, they have some equity, but cash wise they haven't a pot to piss in, and that won't change unless they sell their house.

Simply living in an expensive home means nothing - it doesn't affect your income either way.

www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-22023900.html

8 bedrooms, stabling, 30 acres of land.

www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-37230494.html

5 bedrooms with 3 bedroom cottage, tennis court, pool, 9 acres.

www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-36875072.html

7 bedrooms, 2.5 acres, coach house.

www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-33190342.html?premiumA=true

6 bedrooms, 3 acres.

www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-21811554.html?premiumA=true

6 bedrooms, coach house, 2.5 acres, "extensive pond".

www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-18519489.html

7 bedrooms, 9.5 acres.

www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-22097799.html

5 bedrooms, 5.5 acres.

I often hear people say you one doesn't get much for £2 million in the South East. Perhaps you don't consider these homes "mansions" but I think if you one is living one, you one is doing quite well and probably won't be pushed in to poverty by a tax.

Ah, I think it's obvious what the op is driving at.

If you don't have money, it's because you haven't worked hard enough. Why should decent people defined by how much money they have look after the scum who are just too lazy to earn a living?

It's that mentality. The one that doesn't believe in collective responsibility but the 'me,me,me,mine' attitude - you know, the one encouraged by Thatcher.

Do you really think your attitude is one to aspire to OP?

What makes you think I am not happy? I am very happy and very grateful - money actually comes quite low down my list of priorities - after health, family, friends etc. I am probably middling in terms of people I mix with - I have close friends who live on very little and others who are seriously rich. I don't like them any more or less or judge them any differently.

I lived in a difficult to let council flat in a rough area of East London when I was a student, with very little money, and I was happy then (and grateful to tax payers who funded my education).

I don't object to paying my taxes and of course there needs to be a safety net for people in any civilised society. I just can't bear the self righteous, self justifying souls who post on this site who have such a sense of entitlement and who are full of envy and vitriol towards anyone better off than they are.

Well why didn't you just post that then?

Why dress it up in such unpleasant and deliberately provocative language?

or even of you do work hard and earn a living, if you are jealous of your neighbour who has much more than you its because you made the wrong choices and therefore all your fault

not just a bit of simple "I wish it was me"

But further up the thread you've expressed a view that infers you do object to paying taxes.