Is there an 'underclass' on MN?

[wildswans]

I have name changed for this.

I have been on MN for about 6 months - off and on - and one of the most interesting aspects is the insight into people's lives and the contrasts and similarities. You can communicate with others you probably wouldn't meet in RL and in circumstances where they feel able to be completely open and frank about themselves, their families, their worries, their aspirations etc.

However, I can't help wondering if there is an 'underclass' who subscribe to MN. I have noticed, in particular, that any site which relates in any way to money or status - such as jobs and level of earnings and spending or whether a SAHM or WOHM - provokes very strong reactions. By this I don't just mean engaging in heated debate - which is part of the fun - but there is an undercurrent of envy and spite, which is very unattractive.

There are clearly a lot of high earning, highly successful women in MN and a number who have DHs who are well off. There are also lots who are earning less but do worthwhile and fulfilling jobs and others who are happy to care for their DC full time. Most MNs agree that it's all about choices and it doesn't really matter what you choose as long as it's right for you.

Yet the 'underclass' often seek to highjack interesting and constructive threads by pouring scorn on anyone who is a high earner, can afford tickets to the theatre (or even the zoo in one case!), or go on decent holidays. Presumably these are the ones who want the entrepreneurs to be taxed into exile and for a 'mansion tax' to be imposed. I can tell you that you don't get a 'mansion' for £2m in london or the South East, so what is that all about? In my view, it's nasty spiteful class envy and emanates from a small number of people on MNs who haven't achieved much in their lives so don't think anyone else should either.

Has anyone else reached this conclusion or AIBU?

It's too early for all this over analysing
it's a fact of life that people get jealous
It's a fact of life that society is divided into the haves and have nots
Envy goes on everywhere including mumsnet
It's not science

No., I've not noticed this happening as routine or the same posters doing it.

I've read the sort of threads you're on about, but have no idea if they come from the same posters.

What Gumby said

Been around for years and I've never seen this. I think you're awake too early and confusing your dreams for reality.

Go back to sleep!

I don't agree with all of your post, you can definitely get a massive house round my way for £2m - 23 minutes from central London. And yes I think the council tax for that place should be much more.

It's hardly fair or equitable that my tiny cottage in band C is half the council tax of the 2m house round the corner. Those with more money should pay more tax, the poorer pay disproportionately more.

However, I don't think the envy happens much - although I agree it does occasionally. People can post about property or holidays fairly easily, but everyday spending there seems more conflict over.

Yes some people get jealous. And also some people with money post posts that demonstrate a lack of understanding of the privilege they have and so invite scorn. I see it in both sides tbh - although obviously only from a relatively small number of MNers.

What you are referring to happens all over the place, not just Mnet, it's just as prevalent in RL. The person I know who is most likely to make the kind of comments you refer to is also the most wealthy person I know, they just want whatever someone else has, regardless of what it is. And I hate the term underclass.

Can't say I've noticed any particular poster doing this but I do know what you mean.

For many people on here, if you earn over whatever amount, you are automatically BU and nothing you say carries any credibility.

It's snobbery.

It doesn't matter if £2M does not get you a "mansion" in the South East. The point is that many people would never be able to afford a £2M house even if they worked for 100 years so whining that £2M is just a normal family home is irrelevant.

Whatever your opinions, "underclass" is a horrible, horrible term.

For as many posters as there are with this envy you mention there as many if not more with the most despicable attitude to those on benefits and in unfortunate situations they couldn't begin to comprehend. Zero sympathy, zero empathy.

Provocative OP of the week no: 1,000,000

In terms of the issue of house prices, just looked through google. The median house price in London this year is £348,850. Considerably less than £2 million.

And I guess that is the point. Yes some posters get jealous. But some posters also post rediculous stuff like £100k wages isn't that much money, seemingly oblivious to the fact that even at a statistical level they are amongst a small minority to earn so much.

The reason 'birds of a feather stick together ' is that people are comfortable with others doing the same as them because it supports the place where they have found themselves by whatever reason or means.

When you throw too many different types together theres gonna be a bit of argey bargey til everyones found their place again.

Best to sit somewhere comfy than go out in a storm, but better to be out in a storm than sit somewhere boring.

I agree underclass is a horrible term, but what is the 'class' term for families where nobody works? Working class obviously doesn't fit.

Op I've noticed it too, and there are threads I wouldn't dare post on for that reason, but for the same reason I wouldn't talk about money in real life with people I hardly know who have a lot less. Common sense/sensitivity.

Underclass is used by the Government to mean feckless often semi criminal group of people toddlerama. That is NOT the same as unemployed people. If somebody means unemployed people, then you say unemployed people.

Can't say I have noticed this any more on here than in real life and to be honest I feel able to be far more frank about what I've got and what DH earns on here than in RL. Certainly at work I am extremely closed about my personal life. With DH's work connections I am extremely closed about my opinions on anything controversial. Only with a very few people whom we have known for a very long time would I be open about everything.

Long live Mnet.

Because of the schools my children go to, I never really meet many people in RL who are really struggling as far as money is concerned. So, I really like being able to read posts about people like that, as it gives me an understanding of what it is really like"out there" for some people.

Sometimes, when most of the people you know live in big houses and can afford sparkly new iThings for their children, it's easy to forget that others are worrying about how to make the budget stretch so that the family can both eat, and pay the mortgage/rent.

This is something that I really like about MN - I get to "meet" people from all different walks of life.

Yes, Roger, most women can be bitchy and spiteful, as can most men. However, many of us try not to be. You could try too.

Using the term 'underclass' clearly shows that you think that you are superior to those who have less and are jealous. I take it that you have a valuable property or aspire to a valuable property. A good income to support your lifestyle too. I'm pleased for you and your family.

However there are a lot of people who are not in that position and particular posts may hit a raw nerve. Don't bring your politics* into this debate if you want it to be about people being scornful.

• Entrepreneurs being taxed into exile? Pah! Have you ever thought of those who make off shore arrangements as being those who do not want to pay their fair share and to be make their full contribution to society? Earning high is a privilege that comes with costs attached - it's called progressive taxation. UK taxes on capital are also progressive. If you have a capital asset that costs more, then the associated tax in whatever form should also cost more.

In my view, it's nasty spiteful class envy and emanates from a small number of people on MNs who haven't achieved much in their lives so don't think anyone else should either.

Wow, what a lovely post for a Saturday morning. Showing enormous empathy there!
MN has always had a mixed membership, I remember the holiday posts "assume healthy budget" and a poster asking which car seat would fit in the back of a Porsche Carrera. This juxtaposed with appeals and people struggling. There has always been a bit of a divide. MN is now bigger, more people are feeling the effects of the downturn, the site is less personal and people seem to be more outspoken as there is less of a feeling of intimacy (for want of a better word).

Oh and there are mansions (and actually many areas of wealth) outside of the South east. Who is blinkered now?