Is there an 'underclass' on MN?

[wildswans]

I have name changed for this.

I have been on MN for about 6 months - off and on - and one of the most interesting aspects is the insight into people's lives and the contrasts and similarities. You can communicate with others you probably wouldn't meet in RL and in circumstances where they feel able to be completely open and frank about themselves, their families, their worries, their aspirations etc.

However, I can't help wondering if there is an 'underclass' who subscribe to MN. I have noticed, in particular, that any site which relates in any way to money or status - such as jobs and level of earnings and spending or whether a SAHM or WOHM - provokes very strong reactions. By this I don't just mean engaging in heated debate - which is part of the fun - but there is an undercurrent of envy and spite, which is very unattractive.

There are clearly a lot of high earning, highly successful women in MN and a number who have DHs who are well off. There are also lots who are earning less but do worthwhile and fulfilling jobs and others who are happy to care for their DC full time. Most MNs agree that it's all about choices and it doesn't really matter what you choose as long as it's right for you.

Yet the 'underclass' often seek to highjack interesting and constructive threads by pouring scorn on anyone who is a high earner, can afford tickets to the theatre (or even the zoo in one case!), or go on decent holidays. Presumably these are the ones who want the entrepreneurs to be taxed into exile and for a 'mansion tax' to be imposed. I can tell you that you don't get a 'mansion' for £2m in london or the South East, so what is that all about? In my view, it's nasty spiteful class envy and emanates from a small number of people on MNs who haven't achieved much in their lives so don't think anyone else should either.

Has anyone else reached this conclusion or AIBU?

I was about to post something catty about the Coutts magazine, but then I saw these bloody brilliant features on various women in high profile roles, and I though FANTASTIC! I am going to read through them, especially the ones about the armed forces and security.

I want more of this.

Here

As you were.

Another hijack - vote if you want Lynne Owens on for a MN live chat.

Lynne Owens

Boffin, I'm sure people in need would rather have some material help than to have rich people socialise with them.

My point is that they would probably not need so much material help in the first place if society was less divided.

(At this point people usually point to Scandinavia as an example of why this might be).

Good links Boffinmum

I like Stella for being clear that she has a valued team to help her balance work and home life. I get fed up with people pretending to do it all without help - in particular with celebs who make a point of never having their nannies in photos (angelina, gwynneth, posh etc)

I do think the word underclass is horrid but I totally understand where the OP is coming from in terms of the "bash the rich" mumsnet sentiment. However, I have actually found it quite useful, as people are much more candid in terms of showing their true colours than they would be in real life.

Many people who are "rich" from earned income tend to be cash rich but time poor yet their cash donations never seem to be considered as good as giving their time. I just find that bizarre. Instead of the UK government continuing to give to countries like India, greater philanthropy should be encouraged through the tax system. Although completely take Boffin's point.

Incidently Boffin, Lynne Owens is someone I really admire and would love for her to do a chat here. Great idea.

EFA you seem to be confusing me with other posters. i havent used the word underclass and said in my view the correct term was disfunctional.

you have strong view that business is bad. what is your view based on?

I would use disenfranchised and not the insulting term "disfunctional", Tilly.
As for "you have strong view that business is bad" - err no I don't. I do think there are some problems for society resulting from how some businesses conduct their affairs but I certainly don't think business is intrinsically bad.

I have strong views that a huge gap between the haves and have nots leads to a society that serves the have nots (ie the majority) very badly and even creates problems for the "haves" who do not get to enjoy the benefits of political stability, freedom from crime and the effects of civil unrest.

EFA- so which businesses are good and which bad?

and what is your practical contribution?

Tilly one again I don't understand your questions

you say some business is good and some bad. please name a business you think is good and one you think is bad.

you dont like society as it is. what is your practical contribution towards improving it?

I haven't said any such thing about some business being good and some bad Tilly,why do you repeatedly claim this? Please show me where I have said this

as for improving society, well challenging political dogma is one of the things I like to do - like

we need to keep the super rich happy by allowing them to avoid paying tax in this country or else they will leave the UK (implying this would be a bad thing)

or
we need to pay million pound salary/remuneration packages to get the best talent and thus serve shareholders best - there are plenty of super talented people who would work hard for a fraction of these salaries and serve shareholders very well

or
if people in mega paid jobs do not perform we have only 2 options - either give them a huge bonus anyhow or a golden handshake

your contribution to society is 'challenging political dogma'?

.....on MN?

look at marrieds & Mr marrieds contribution.....

& might i suggest that the person who gets the role i am currently recruiting for, is more interested in me creating the job off my own back than your 'challenging political dogma'.

& he wont actually care what i earn. unlike interestingly you. ....

Where I live, the equivalent of 2M pounds would buy you this...

cheerful - think about the cleaning!

where i live it buys you a 3 bed flat....

I'm assuming anyone who can afford that house can afford cleaners. :o

But otherwise...we bought our little three bed house for about 68,000 pounds and I am giving up work so I can keep on top of the cleaning and remodeling on it so a big place like that would do me in!

Essential, as you are being bombarded by obtuse and irrelevant questioning, I'd just like to point out that I understand where you are coming from.

Well Outranged, it does appear a rather strange that someone is prepared to criticise my contributrion to society (job creation during a recession), have very little idea about how business acutally works, but does not seem to be able to explain their own contribution other than 'challenging political dogma'.

I've only recently found MN . I haven't been on sites about money but those sites that I have been on do seem to be largely taken up with people from priviliged backgrounds. I would have thought WildSwans ( name that reminds me of a book of suffering!) that you would have felt very at home on MN.

It is true the anonimity seems to make people lose tact.

Re issue:Tax is painful, most people don't realise how lucky they are and the huge divide that has happened in salaries in the last 20 years is going to cause anger and envy. Perhaps, society with its 'overclass' or 'fatcatclass' is going to become more vitriolic and rebellious because History tells us huge divides cause dis-ease.

I see myself as privilged but I think people are entitled to express their consternation when some comfortable people don't realise their comfortability is a luxury - most people do not have opportunities to own a £2M house, it is absurd to not see that the huge hikes in some salaries mean there is less to go around for others. Pay your taxes and count your blessings.

Wasabi - I'm still challenging you to link to a single humble, £2m property on Rightmove. Presumably you live in Mayfair / Chelsea. Which is a lifestyle choice in itself.

long - your were talking to another poster about the £2m property previously.

& no i dont live in Mayfair or anywhere like that! someone who lives in Mayfair would die of shock if they saw where i live.