I STILL think Tesco should fucking well PAY THEIR STAFF. Workfare is wrong!!!!

[TapselteerieO]

Still angry, I hope the protests on the 3rd of March all over the country really keep this campaign lit, it makes me furious to think people seem to assume it has been sorted.

I will boycott every company that uses schemes like this until they are ended completely.

I am annoyed you have moved this to politics, I think we are going to get more visibility in AIBU. Ho hum.

Strange that. The original thread stayed in AIBU

I wonder if I had put AIBU in the title if they would have left it? The last one did not have AIBU in the title I checked.

This thread is not about politics, it is about the wrongness of these programmes, forced/free labour for profit making companies, I have no political affiliations.

TapselteerieO

Off to do School run, did Wilkinsons or Boots actually issue a statement yesterday?

Found the guidance notes for doctors working on Atos assessments, don't know if it's of any interest, if it is, I'll find it and put link here later.

I didn't see any statements, will have a look later, but dc home from school so I need to go too.

Ignoring my children

"Boots UK
We would like to clarify our position in relation to the Workfare Scheme posts.

Every year, Boots UK stores and support office provide a significant number of work placements for young people across the country to provide positive opportunities to start building their careers.

As a company our policy has never been to participate in schemes which compel people to work on a mandatory basis or use people on work placement to replace paid employment. We do offer voluntary placements to individuals who want to gain work experience for periods of up to two weeks as part of our local community stores activities. We are currently restating this policy to store managers.

Boots UK?s policy and ambition is and has always been to provide positive opportunities for people and we are committed to further developing our programme through existing and forthcoming initiatives that will enable us to practically deliver this ambition, and to make a real difference for young people in the UK."

tesco et al know damn well that not many claimants are going to be willing to sign off for 4 weeks to do a "placement" because like Glitter says you need to be signed off and working for a MINIMUM of FIVE weeks to claim tax credits and its the same rule for the housing benefit run on and the council tax benefit run on.
Tesco Boots etc KNOW this so therefore they know many claimants will have no choice but to carry on as before and still be coerced into doing it for their JSA. Because there is also the fact that they could have to wait 6 weeks for all benefits to be reinstated.

Boots are talking CRAP. I took part in a radio phone in last Sunday (19th) on the Stephen Nolan show on Radio 5 Live at 10pm and the lady who phoned in before me was 38 years old and had done a placement ar Boots cleaning shelves so when they say young people they are lying.
I come on about 2.16 in and i used the name Jenny.
The lady who did the placement in Boots comes on about half an hour to forty minutes before me and is called Maria.

Are Boots being purposefully vague or are they just disingenuous because if that's the statement meant to allay our concerns, I find myself confused and totally disbelieving.

They need to say emphatically and clearly whether they use people on workfare or they don't.

I contacted and was told they do but only at a local level but Mr Grayling suggests by his comments that there is national agreement.

Basically they are hiding behind Graylings insistence that it's voluntary.

Some Tory politician is talking to Osborne about temporarily suspending all employment legislation. It was on Radio 4 this morning but again on my way out for school run didn't catch all of it.

Four quarters thats like saying that tax credits have nothing to do with low wages.

Companies know enough about the benefits/tax system to know that tax credits will top up the low wages that they pay when they are actually paying a wage so you cant tell me that they dont know the rest of it i.e. the full facts about workfare because any company that says they dont is talking BULLSHIT.

It might be worth while bearing in mind that some of these companies may never have actually signed up to workfare.

I have just contacted the Mr Gleam cleaning company from list and it would seem that they were added to the DWP list of participating companies and they have never agreed to be part of it, I actually believe them.

Joseph Mason 17:15:12
A mistake from the DWP through Avanta which is being dealt with as a matter of urgency. The DWP have taken us off the list as a result as we have never been involved in the workfare scheme.

Mini 17:17:06
So somewhere along the line someone is trying to make it look as though there is more support for this scheme than there is?
Joseph Mason 17:18:13
If you wish to speak about this matter please feel free to contact myself via telephone.

So why are some companies signed up without their consent

mini thats terrible. So the DWP is causing bad PR for these companies and saying theyve agreed to something they havent
I can smell a BIG court case unless they buck their ideas up.

Emma Harrison of A4e is stepping down as families minister Radio 4 now.

TapselteerieO of course I know what you mean by Workfare but the point I was trying to make is that if companies or DWP are approached and you call it Workfare you will get the answer that there is no such thing or at they aren't taking part. Call it whatever you like on here but for contacting or campaigning don't use Workfare.

I was trying to help but had imbibed so my post may not have come across that way. I just don't want them wriggling out of it on technicalities!

So who is holding a gun to these companies heads saying that they musnt pay much above NMW then? Who is holding a gun to their heads saying they must accept people on workfare for weeks or months on end.

A lot of these companies try to use the "get out of jail free card" of "hey its not a company issue" but no one is holding them hostage to pay these rates OR to participate in workfare so with all due respect thats bollocks.

In the Guardian yesterday, it talks of Tescos changing the scheme to offer the people the 'choice' of EITHER working for their benefits OR taking a 4-week PAID work placement WITH the gurantee of a job at the end IF their work placement is completed satisfactorily.

Just one GLARING problem with this - they are STILL BEING FORCED TO DO IT UNPAID FOR THEIR BENEFITS.

While the Guardian MIGHT be lauding this new statement as a success story - IT BLOODY WELL ISN'T.

Because Tescos and the DWP have neglected to mention one HUGE omission. If you take a 4-week work experience placement PAID - you will be INELIGIBLE to claim Tax Credits - because the work can only be guaranteed if you complete the Work experience programme to Tescos satisfaction.

You will also have your Housing Benefits affected, and have to cover your rent so as not to lose your home - as you will have had a 'change in circumstances', which takes a MINIMUM of 6 weeks to reassess. Ditto your Council Tax benefits.

IF they did the PAID placements for just ONE WEEK LONGER, they would be eligible to claim Tax Credits. The reason they have chosen a 4-week PAID placement as the replacement for this Workfare scheme is because they KNOW that no-one can risk losing their home, and trying to survive on NMW WITHOUT Tax Credits - and therefore they WILL BE FORCED TO DO THE PLACEMENT UNPAID IN RETURN FOR THEIR BENEFITS. To be able to cover their basic living costs.

This is just a sop to the masses, to make people shut up. Because they expect hardly anyone to be ABLE to take up the 4-week paid placement - because the job isn't guaranteed for 5 weeks, thus meaning the inability to claim Tax Credits...

THEY THINK WE ARE ALL STUPID AND WILL SHUT UP AND GO AWAY BECAUSE THEY HAVE 'FIXED' THE WORK 'EXPERIENCE AND 'MANDATORY WORK-RELATED ACTIVITY PROBLEM.

(C&P from the first thread for those that CBA to read it.)

Cheers HuntyCat - I agree that it is not over yet, we have to keep going and raising awareness.

Boycott them all.

FourQuartersOfLight - 'Why don't you think the DWP should come up with workable solutions for getting people back to work?'

The operative word there is WORKABLE. The 'Mandatory Work-Related Activity' scheme and the 'Work Experience' scheme are NOT workable.

It should be a fair days pay for a days work.

If they are only going to pay me £1.92 an hour - then they are only going to get 19 minutes of work each hour out of me. My labour is worth £6.08 per hour minimum. I WON'T do a full hours work for less than that.

I ALSO NEED the ability to be able to claim Housing Benefit to cover a portion of my rent - If I took the 4-week placement, I would get into SERIOUS rent arrears, and I would lose my home. I'm not alone in this - most benefits claimants would be in the same boat.

I ALSO NEED the ability to claim Tax Credits - to top up the NMW to a livable amount and to cover my childcare costs - If I took the 4-week placement, I would be unable to claim Tax Credits, and would therefore be TOTALLY unable to cover my childcare on NMW alone.

If I found PAID employment, PROPER PAID employment, even at NMW, I would be able to claim Housing Benefit to cover some of my rent, Working Tax Credits to bring my NMW earnings to something approaching a livable wage, AND the Childcare Element of Working Tax Credits to cover 70% of my childcare.

If I took the 4-week paid placement - I would NOT get any of this ESSENTIAL financial assisstance.

Therefore, I CANNOT take the 4-week PAID placement, and would be left with no CHOICE but to take the UNPAID PLACEMENT.

I would think that that is a relatively SIMPLE idea to grasp - that this new statement is just trying to dupe people into thinking that this is a huge improvement. It's NOT. It is still in essence mandatory to do the UNPAID placement, unless you want to starve and end up homeless...I call that mandatory, and deceptive for the DWP and businesses and the Government to state otherwise.

Why ON EARTH would these companies WANT to give up on their free labour, that they get PAID to take on??!!

Fourquarters - If you want a WORKABLE solution - how about these companies making as many PAID jobs - paying at LEAST NMW - available as they have had and will have available to the 'Mandatory Work-Related activity' scheme and the 'Work Experience' scheme combined?

Then those people would be IN EMPLOYMENT. They would be paying Tax and NI. They would no longer be claiming JSA (Jobseekers Allowance). The Government would not be paying A4E, Ingeus, Reed and many others frankly disgustingly HUGE sums of money for a success rate of LESS than 20%.

The work is THERE. Or there would be NO economic purpose in the employers taking ON these 'Workfare' (covers BOTH groups) people. So if there is the work THERE for these people - why can't they PAY THEM A PROPER WAGE AND GIVE THEM PERMANENT EMPLOYMENT.

AND PAY THEM A FAIR DAYS PAY FOR A DAYS WORK?