To think some posters need a "reality check" re. views on benefit changes

[lesley33]

I have some concerns about some of the proposed changes to benefits and how these may adversely affect people. So this is NOT a thread about that. But I am getting increasingly fed up at some of the frankly ridiculous reasons some posters are giving against the proposed changes. Examples include:

1. That children 12 and over will be traumatised if both parents work - even if second parent only works 20 hours a week.

1. That a parent with children 12 and over shouldn't have to commute up to 90 minutes each way to work. Far from ideal I know and if someone is on low wages this might not be affordable. But perfectly doable.

1. That childcare is impossible to get for teenagers. Ignoring the fact that many parents, myself included use a combination of kids home alone and afterschool activities.

AIBU to think some people need a reality check? Plenty of people with children already work, many with both parents working full time by the time their kids are teenagers. Plenty of people have long commutes, struggle with childcare, etc. Things might not be "ideal", but these are things that many many working parents already do.

Dd was going to ask her friend from local special school to come over after school, I kind of thought I could pick her up with her mums permission! She's 14!

I really hate the way SN keep being brought up on these posts. Of course people with SN deserve to have more support and money but this isn't about SN

Oh poor you, you really hate it do you?

Heres a reality check, it keeps coming up because the changes will affect people with and the families of those with SN

Maybe thats why it keeps coming up eh?

I really hate it that when the changes come in, I will no longer get the support I get now for my disabled son, I will have to work [if I can find a job] or I will have to do workfare. all this of course despite the fact there are no SN childcare places and I have no one to help with his care.

So sorry if its bothering you that those pesky disabled kids keep popping up interrupting your debate.

Amber...it's just the odd poster thinking this way, minority not majority. Don't let it get you down

well said amber.
I wish people would realise that disabled people are going to be really bady hit by the cuts. and people will die

from an environmental pov the govt should NOT be encouraging anyone to commute for 90 mins- there should be more incentives for people to live closer to jopbs or for jobs to be brought closer to people

Maybe it's just my LEA then - They WON'T release to an empty house. Which is what this discussion was about, surely, 12yo's going home to an empty house because their parent(s) is/are at work. Now while I would go so far as to say that the majority of 12yo's would be fine for a couple of hours, NOT ALL WILL BE. For various reasons. And the parent of a 12yo at SN school, at least in my LEA, will NOT be released to an empty house. And there just ISN'T SN childcare available for Secondary age dc. Yet a LOT of their parents only receive MRC DLA for them, and would be subject to this rule.

So I DON'T think this is polarising this debate, or bringing my own issues into it, I am trying to explain some of the many reasons WHY someone may not feel happy to leave their 12yo at home alone, which I thought was the point of this thread?

Unless the point was to get everyone to come onto the thread and nod and agree, rather than to try to show some alternative viewpoints and reasons?

And oh yes, those pesky disabled people and people with dc with SN keep popping upon these threads and you really hate it. That is because those with disabilities and those caring for dc with SN are going to be the worst affected by the cuts and the benefit cap.

And NO we won't conveniently shut up to stop annoying you and the Government.

Thanks IloveTiffany, but to be honest, its pissing me off

The reality of what these changes will mean is what gets me down.

I know that some people are of the mind that if it doesnt affect them, it doesnt really matter, but I wish people would realise this is not about a teatime internet debate, this is about the half lives my family and loads more like us will be forced into leading

Yep Sevenfold, I wish people would open their eyes and ears to whats really important. some dont seem to realise how hard this is going to be on disabled people.

If anyone wants a reality check; read this and this

I'm lucky in lots of ways

The cuts don't affect me because I get nothing, I get nothing financial because of my DP and am aware of how bad a situation I would be in without him.

The local authority cuts don't affect me because I don't get anything there either, I don't feel so lucky about that one - but hey you can't miss what you've never had, eh? lol

DS qualifies for lower rate DLA (he's not currently receiving it, but that's another story) to me that is lucky that he doesn't need the higher rates, he doesn't need constant supervision, he doesn't need anything through the night, he can independently toilet and dress himself.

But, he doesn't just require what a typical 15 yr old requires and a lot of his independence has happened in the last 18 months, his AS absolutely affects everything in our lives and complicates what I have to do for DD - I can't just get a full time job and leave them alone.

If my DP died or left me, I still couldn't work full time and I wouldn't be entitled to carer's allowance which is what exempts you from having to look for work.

It's not as cut and dried as disabilities being exempt from some of the changes being made. Others are about disability anyway, my DS will be 16 soon, I have no idea how that will leave him as DLA is going for adults.

It's also very hard to leave something out of a debate when it is something that affects nearly everything that happens in your life.

The thing is Hunty said parents have choices,they get benefits.The rest of us don't have choices.Wether we had an SEN child or not we'd still have to go to work and we'd have to make arrangements otherwise said 12 year old would be out on the street due to the mortgage/rent not being paid.

When you have that incentive believe me you do the 90 min commute(seriously can not believe this is a reason not to work many do it/have done it),you find arrangements for teenagers as the building society(a lot less sympathetic than the benefit office methinks) really couldn't give a shit.

Sorry I think those used to years of benefits have a different mindset to those that have never had them. When you've never had a safety net to bail you out you get used to sorting things out and doing what needs to be done.I get the distinct impression from these threads that some people(not you Hunty I'm aware things are more complex) but many others would find any excuse not fend for themselves and will find any argument for there to be a never ending level of benefits.

The thing is somebody has to pay for them-ah yes that would be the 90 min commuters which include my sister who has always worked like a trogan for SEN charities and spends her life travelling round the SW for families but never gets to put her 4 year old twins to bed. People do it because they have to do it as they have to provide a roof over their head.

These threads have been a revelation to me.I had no idea how entrenched the level of entitlement is within some people and how much some people think their needs and the needs of their family are more deserving than every other family who get up at 6.30 am every bloody morning and always have done every working day of their lives.

"said parents have choices,they get benefits.The rest of us don't have choices."

Wrong. Other way round.

You, MrsHeffley, have a choice. You could choose not to own property, not to work. And to take the subsistence level benefits you'd get for doing that. Or you can choose to work. Or you may be able to choose not to work and to live off your DH or property or whatever.

I do not have choices like that. I cannot choose to work at the moment. I hope this is a temporary (though long) state of affairs, and even to go back into my old field with suitable adjustments.

But right now, choice is not something I have much of.

you cannot legally choose not to work. if you want JSA you have to look for work.

OK cantspel, some factual evidence for you: I have two children, I am on income support. I wasn't on income support (or any other benefit) when either child was concieved or born. So you're just wrong. HTH.

I'm laughing here..Childcare for a severly disabled thirteen year old child? WHERE?

I haven't had one evening to myself for thirteen years as I can't afford childcare and even if I could there seems to be virtually no childcare providers who will take my DS on.
I'd love to work.

It's perfectly legal to choose not to work. You'll just be very poor and not entitled to JSA.

nilgiri there's often no choice but to work.
How then would a mortgage get paid?
Are you seriuously saying that letting your house be repossessed and having that debt follow you if the bank can;t sell for how much you owe (v common these days) is a meaningful choice?
Oh yes, then mrsh could choose to go into a hostel. And she could choose to starve as she'd get no benefits unless she could jolly well explain why she had chosen to give up work.

Blimey. With that logic you could choose to put your DC in care and voila, you'd be free to work.

As a teenager from eleven I used to go to and from school in 2 buses and make my own tea. Obviously when I didn't feel like it I didn't go to school as who would know? Not my mum who had already left for work. And after school when I would hang around streets and get up to mischief or bunk of school and invite the mischief in to my house, who knew? You can say both parents should work and it is perfectly reasonable but it does have consequences.

nailak - Don't assume everyone is like you. I used to get myself to and from secondary school as both my parents worked full time - in low paid jobs. I didn't bunk off or not bother going to school in the morning or not have tea.

And those I did know who used to bunk off and go back to their house included kids whose mum waved them off to school and then went on to do part time work.

And my kids go back alone to an empty house. All are doing very very well in school and as if there was any truancy I would know about it from the school.

Cantspel, not one of my children were conceived on income support and I have four of them. I am on income support now because of my refusal to be in relationship where there was violence.

you shouldnt believe everything you read!

Exactly, wordfactory. It's so unpleasant few people with choices would choose to do that.

People without choices, on the other hand, may have to lose the house even when it doesn't cover the debt. Because they don't, er, have a choice.

Oh and I have a job but due to my son having sn ive had to reduce my hours

I also to be fair can't understand why the average 12 year old without sen's doesn't have the common sense to make their own tea and do their homework without Mum there until she gets back from work. My generation did as a matter of course.

However there should also be provision for parents of teens going off the rails to take a break for a few months so that if your 13 year suddenly aquires a much old boyfriend or your 15 year old lad starts truanting and coming home stinking of hashish you as a parent can step in and get em straighened out BEFORE they start costing the country a fortune in criminal justice and welfare costs.

Teenagers are funny things and even kids from the nicest homes can go off the rails sometimes. That parental time off work to get em sorted doesn't have 2 be forever.

For parents of younger kids - in the current economy I just wanna know where all these well paid school hours only jobs are coming from so I can get meself one!

I don't have choices I have a child with SN(not SEN) who needs constant care, If I was on benefits how the hell could I work? there is no child care for a severely disabled 16 yr old. yet if she was on MR DLA i would be expected to.

Sorry kids bunking off after school is not the responsibility of the rest of us.If your kids choose to do that it's poor parenting to blame nothing else.

I know hoards of kids that come home to an empty house and get on with homework as if they didn't they wouldn't have the hours in the day to get it done.

So now parents shouldn't work because they can't control their kids but those who can should.