To think some posters need a "reality check" re. views on benefit changes

[lesley33]

I have some concerns about some of the proposed changes to benefits and how these may adversely affect people. So this is NOT a thread about that. But I am getting increasingly fed up at some of the frankly ridiculous reasons some posters are giving against the proposed changes. Examples include:

1. That children 12 and over will be traumatised if both parents work - even if second parent only works 20 hours a week.

1. That a parent with children 12 and over shouldn't have to commute up to 90 minutes each way to work. Far from ideal I know and if someone is on low wages this might not be affordable. But perfectly doable.

1. That childcare is impossible to get for teenagers. Ignoring the fact that many parents, myself included use a combination of kids home alone and afterschool activities.

AIBU to think some people need a reality check? Plenty of people with children already work, many with both parents working full time by the time their kids are teenagers. Plenty of people have long commutes, struggle with childcare, etc. Things might not be "ideal", but these are things that many many working parents already do.

i was told i new nothing of life. yes of course my dad was lucky it didnt happen when he was a child (& i do mean lucky).

To then be told you are scrounging and work-shy because circumstances will not allow you to work, and then to have your benefits cut because your child is not quite 'disabled' enough seems like another kick in the teeth.

i havent said any of this.

no, I'm sorry I didnt mean to imply that YOU said the above. I meant that "scrounding and "workshy" is a common and completely wrong perception that seems to be doing the rounds with the Daily Mail types.
apologies again TRTM

BoldieGoldie yes - thats how i feel.

my dad was v lucky it haddent happened when he was a child, 100 years ago or in a developing country.

he lived a really good life before he stopped being able to control any msucles (including vision and swallowing) so really overall i think his lot was quite good.

boschy thnka you i am not quite sure what i am accused of on this thread.

I agree with the OP, the average wage for not working is perfectly fair. How can anyone say it is ok for people who work to get the average and below average wage, yet unfair for those who do not work to get the average wage?
And there is nothing wrong with commuting, or parents with children over twelve working.

I'm not the thread police, but I'm leaving this thread now because I don't think there's anything else to be gained by posting on it.

There has been a lot of debate and I think some people's perceptions have changed as a result of it, which is great. I don't think any more can be said, though, and it's all got rather unpleasantly personal.

Thank you to everyone who contributed something useful, regardless of whether I agreed with it or not.

i am certainly not going to take anything anyone said personally....whether they really meant it that way or not.

i do believe that understanding the pyschcology of coping can help with the non practical side of difficult times.

heres a link for anyone who wants to know more: changingminds.org/explanations/behaviors/coping/coping.htm

& if you dont - that ok - i find it useful - i thought someone else might.

"you dont choose teh shit. you do choose how you respond to it."

So right, Tilly. I respond to my own curve balls (2 disabled boys and chronic pain caused by a joint disorder) by trying to have some empathy for others and not diminish their own concerns and challenges.

As for the benefits, both of my boys sleep reasonably well so are on MRC and we're going to get clobbered to the tune of over £500 a month over the next few years, but we're lucky enough to have put by enough money to fix all the mess the boys have made of the house and the urine soaked sofas, simply because we live in a very cheap area. We will have to tighten our belts, but will survive without me going out to work to make up the shortfall. That is just as well because public transport here is virtually non-existant on evenings and weekends - we live in the sticks. Our housing costs would more than double if we didn't. DS1 is also a school refuser and prone to violent and angry outbursts. Never mind being hard to place in childcare, it's hard keeping him in school, sometimes.

It doesn't stop me from feeling bad for people who are already struggling and will not be able to make ends meet under the changes. If anything, my own situation makes me glad not to be in their shoes. I'll not compare with a Somalian orphan, because life isn't about a league table of who deserves most pity. We live in a far more civilised country than Somalia and a civilised society helps its less fortunate, no matter how they got there.

ouryve - what a lovely comment. You put everything into perspective & i give you a lot of credit for the hard work you must have to do on a day to day basis.

ouryve i don think you have understood my comments.

it not 'your are not a Somalian orphan, go over it' its 'I found comparing my sitiation at my worst time with a Somalian orphan & i found it useful you might find that approach useful'.

can you see there is a big difference?

There's a great deal of word twisting going on at the moment. TillyMint hasn't actually said half the things she's bring accused of. Sticking to the facts might help.

I can see a huge difference, Tilly. It's just not a helpful thought for many people, though. I can be genuinely thankful that my boys are relatively physically healthy. Not everyone has that luxury and thinking how much worse it could be isn't helpful to everyone and for some people can add to their anxiety about their own situation.

I'm made of pretty tough stuff but I still battle with self blame and worries that I'm not doing enough for the boys or setting a good enough example or being patient enough as i find myself driven to distraction by DS1's endless questioning and attempts at dictatorship or DS2's endless mess and screeching. This is expressing itself in increased pain and debilitation from a lifelong, previously tolerable condition. Many parents of kids with SN take antidepressants or anxiolytics. On top of the feelings I've described, many parents of children with SN have to deal with school battles, prejudice in their neighbourhoods, unhelpful local policy i the NHS and education systems and professionals who, rather than caring about the individuals, are on a mission to save their employers money. Money, employment and housing worries on top of all these issues (and more) can make the load quite unbearable for many.

This is why, although the thought may have been helpful to you, thinking about Somalian orphans isn't helpful for most people.

I work and always have done.I believe parents whose youngest is 12+ should be working, even if they have to be pushed into it.
BUT they should not both have to work fulltime + 3 hours commute.A 12/13 yr old is still very much a child. Even the 14-16 s do not think like,have different needs to, and are NOT adults.They should not be left to bring themselves up.I am very saddened by the poster who thinks it is OK to leave a 12 yo alone overnight.It isn't.That is neglect.I am guessing her view is probably coloured by her own mother doing that and she does not want to think of her mother as a bad parent.

You know, some of you lot make me want to puke.

Yes, life can be hard, don't I fucking know it. Tell me how it helps to have this government force cancer patients undergoing chemotherapy to attend back to work interviews?

Who does that help exactly?

Yeah, I might be dying in front of my 5 year old DS's eyes, but at least I'm not somalian eh?

Well. That should kill the thread.

wubbly - Nobody has suggested they agree with that. And I deliberately said that I do not agree with all the proposed changes.

but the government forcing cancer patients to attend back to work interviews is completely different than anything i am saying.

i think the cuts are unfair & should be stopped & rethought but that is not the topic of this thread. & i have not commented on the cuts anyway so i dont know why anyone is making assumptions.

actualy i do know why - getting angry is a way of dealing iwith something.

The other point is that poor people will be spending their benefits and spending them in UK,This boosts the economy, whereas richer people are more likely to save which has a detrimental effect on the economy.

also - if at the worst time in my life, so one had tried to tell me about their way of coping e.g. religion, i might have thought it was a load of crap but i would have just ignored it. they were trying to help whatever the rights & wrongs of it.

so why is this different?

Gee, you're full of the amatuer psychology Tilly, thanks for that.

You'll note, Lesley and Tilly, I didn't address my post to anyone in particular, so don't flatter yourself that it was all about you. But it's great to hear that you'll be campaigning against these cuts until you're happy that they are fair. I'd missed that

Obviously Tilly, you're the one who brought up the ludicrous Somalian reference, so yes, that bit was for you.

There are plenty of posters on here who can barely veil their disdain towards those on benefits. The sneering responses to many posters is sickening.

Oh and the post is about benefit changes is it not? Sorry if my particular take on it sits a little uncomfortably for you.

you might not like my amatuer psychology but it is true isnt is?

I was about to ask where the religion came from. I thought this was about benefit change, how it'll affect families etc?

No its not really about whether the proposed benefit changes are a good idea or not. Its about the imo unrealistic ideas that a few people think are good reasons for not being able to work.

And please don't sneer about campaigning. You have no idea who I am or what I do in my RL.

No it's not true Tilly. I manage okay actually, all my quacks tell me so

Lesley, no one knows what we do in our RL. I know what you post, I've been on many threads with you.