To think some posters need a "reality check" re. views on benefit changes

[lesley33]

I have some concerns about some of the proposed changes to benefits and how these may adversely affect people. So this is NOT a thread about that. But I am getting increasingly fed up at some of the frankly ridiculous reasons some posters are giving against the proposed changes. Examples include:

1. That children 12 and over will be traumatised if both parents work - even if second parent only works 20 hours a week.

1. That a parent with children 12 and over shouldn't have to commute up to 90 minutes each way to work. Far from ideal I know and if someone is on low wages this might not be affordable. But perfectly doable.

1. That childcare is impossible to get for teenagers. Ignoring the fact that many parents, myself included use a combination of kids home alone and afterschool activities.

AIBU to think some people need a reality check? Plenty of people with children already work, many with both parents working full time by the time their kids are teenagers. Plenty of people have long commutes, struggle with childcare, etc. Things might not be "ideal", but these are things that many many working parents already do.

'Training has also become much more expensive in recent years. I know many adults who in previous recessions were able to retrain to improve their chances of getting new jobs after redundancy, sadly this option is now beyond the financial reach of many.

This is true; had Dh been amde redundant now the path that ahs led to his business would have been impossible, so very short sighted! They think they are giving people a kick up the bnackside to get them on the ladder of self sufficiency but just as fast soem other bastard is cutting off the ladder from the other end.

It's not always as easy as get organised Alou; even if the boys suddenly were cured so I could use the local chidlcare I would not have enough cash for the hefty deposit / upfront fees wanted now, certainly not even without knowing for sure if I ahd a job in palce to need it.

(Can I just quiety reiterate that Dh works, I am not arguing for full benefit dependency for my family, just that one of us will always find it ahrd with the boy's needs, but we are trying bloody hard).

Perhaps The Real

so you bhuld the new housing where that's not the case surely?

You'd be daft to send people to those areas, or Liverpool, or Merthyr and expect them to find work, sense dictates you use your stats to work out hwhere ahs the biggest capacity and build in those palces.

Surely?

RemainsOfTheDay You're talking to the wrong person I think, I've not mentioned tax credits at all on here :)

madnortherner Thank you.

Personally I think if you're only having to pay childcare during school holidays, then you're relatively lucky. Those of us who worked when our children were babies had to pay in the region of £40 per child per day all year round. My kids' nursery charged 51 weeks of the year, regardless of whether you used it all that time. And nurseries often have a long waiting list and need planning months ahead, deposit paid etc. And no, we aren't all rolling in it. Many working parents really struggle to pay childcare, rent,and all the other bills, plus the extortionate costs of travel to and from work.

Peachy - i dont know why they dont have jobs so i dont know what the fix is.

how can there be higher unemployment in central london than liverpool?

Well of course I have had to pay childcare all year round, as I work all year round. But the school holidays have been particularly expensive.

The Big Society = grannies.

i tink the SN issue is very relevant. Because so many on MRC are simply unable to be left. These can be kids with autism, even those who are quadriplegic and on oxygen. As long as they dont wake for more than 20 mins at night.
And those parents will be expected to go out to work or workfare. No excuses.

The criteria is too vague

Linerunner- my point is that school holidays only seem expensive If you have stayed at home until your children are school age. If you have paid all year round childcare for a baby, believe me, school holiday care is a blessed relief in comparison

What if Granny's got dementia?

Or will she do at a push?

SN is of course relevant - but it does not explain:

46% of children in towerhamlets are born to workless households.
unemployment is higher than liverpool.

how can unemployment be higher in central london than liverpool?

I did have to pay for nursery callmemrs, because my ExH did a runner when the DCs were very small and I was in a new job. Tbh childcare changed its permutations nearly every year as they grew, and they started/left various phases of school, and my hours changed and shifted at the whims of various bossmen. Holiday care was marginally more expensive than nursery - but not by much, I have to say. I can see your point, for sure.

I hate to think how much I've paid in childcare over the past ten years.

Have you ever added it up, callmemrs? It must be scary amounts.

I haven't actually, because I really would find the reality very scary. It especially pisses me off that childcare isn't even tax deductible - even though it's essential to enable you to work! To get back to the op- this is the kind of thing that is really grinding down those who don't receive any benefits. They are often paying rent/mortgage, all childcare, all council tax, all utilitybills, all transport costs, prescriptions, dental treatment etc etc out of TAXED income. They are often living pretty much hand to mouth with nothing in reserve for when things go wrong.

Alouisee - if you are offered a job tomorrow, that wants you to start next monday, that you only found out the hours for when you applied 2 weeks ago, HOW exactly do you plan ahead and book holiday care for february half term? If you can't,then you can't take the job. I would have thought that was glaringly obvious?

The baby element was scrapped last year - but anyone whose baby was born BEFORE 31st January 2011 will have been getting the extra baby element of their child tax credits. I was getting the extra £10-ish a week for DS3, this week will have been the last payment that included it as he was 1yo yesterday, so next week's payment will not include that £10-ish. So some people may still have one more payment of £10-ish left to go before it stops being paid to ANYONE in the country.

I often had to ring up the day before and ask the YMCA if they had any spaces left, when work chucked something at me. Luckily the YMCA take credit card bookings, and luckily I had a credit card, and luckily they usually had spaces left.

I think for many lone parents, though, this wouldn't be an option.

I know that I have paid more in childcare over ten years than it would have cost me to pay off my mortgage. I have no savings and a ramshackle house.

AND the 'childcare' at the leisure centre ISN'T a full-day,8am-6pm childcare. It is SPORTS-BASED (so not suitable for anyone with severe asthma / muscle problems), NOT run by Ofsted registered childcarers (as it is SPORTS-BASED), so ISN'T SUITABLE TO CLAIM TAX CREDIT HELP WITH. So Alouisee, I think, is trying to muddy the waters.

Alouisee - would you rather try to denigrate ME personally than admit that, yes, Ofsted registered childcare that you can claim for HELP with the costs (UP TO a maximum of £175 a week for one child, and £210 a week for 2 or more children) from Tax Credits is expensive, and hard to come by, because it doesn't suit your argument?

I am NOT exaggerating.

From what you've told me in the past Hunty the Father of some of your children is unemployed. Any chance he could pull his weight while you get yourself sorted. If he is now working then he can support you while you raise his offspring.

No they weren't huntycat

DD was born in Sept 2010 and the baby element stopped for her in April 2011 whe they scrapped it.

And if you are able to pay for childcare without any help from Tax credits, then you are obviously on a better wage than those who are on NMW that are earning £228 BEFORE TAX for a FT working week. If their childcare is, even more conservatively than my area, £40 a day in school holidays per child, for a 5-day week for 2 dc that would be £200 a week. Out of a wage of £228 a week before tax. Where's the money to GET to childcare and work? The bus fares, even if I discounted my 13yo DD with SN, (who should, obviously, stay at home alone...) for me, DS1 and DS2 to get them to childcare and me to work etc would be £3.40 a day for me, and £2.30 a day EACH for the two DS's. So that would be £40 a week.

SO the childcare and transport to work take up MORE than that person's PRE-TAX earnings. Without a thought to such luxuries as rent or food. And no-one thinks that there is just a slight problem with expecting all these 'workshy scroungers' to go back to work?

IMO it's the fact that so many employers pay less than a subsistance wage that is the problem. NOT that benefits are too high - they aren't, wages are too low. At least, they are too low to cover the basics of childcare, travel to work, rent, council tax, gas, electric, water and food.

Oh and methe I'm so sorry I meant huntycat!

Remains - how is it, then, that I have been getting it until this week, and will not be getting it NEXT week, because DS3 has turned 1yo?