Independence for Scotland

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

Cameron says 'get on with it'. Salmond is biding his time. Presumably both of them think an early referendum would earn a 'no' result. In an era where countries are banding together to weather the storms of international economics I'm not sure I quite understand why a very small nation would want to go it alone. Then again, is it a given that anyone that voted SNP automatically wants independence as they are suggesting? Or is it, same as in England, that they got in because they 'weren't Labour'...?

Yes I do think it's important.

Perhaps he should start with Westminster election procedure to avoid an election result like the last one. Wait a minute, that wouldn't really be in his best interests would it?

Ttosca there's been a lot of silly comments like yours on this thread.

Alex Salmond is representing his party, his opinion is not necessarily the opinion of the Scottish people. The SNP's think the question (s) should be put to the vote, they have always said that vote should take place towards the end of the current term. Only once those questions are answered can we determine what the people of Scotland want. You're assuming that because the Government of Scotland want independence, the people of Scotland also do. Believe it or not, it's a rather diverse country, some Scottish people are not supportive of Independence & some are, the ratio at the moment is unknown.

But it's not a delay. SNP always said (pre election) that it would be towards the end of the term.

The question of Scottish independence is for the Scots to decide. There was talk by Alex Salmond of Scotland being independent but keeping Sterling. I think that's been ruled out by Westminster. Not much independence without your own currency.

If the question of Devo Max comes up I think that is for the whole of the UK to decide. If E, W and NI don't want Scotland to have the option of devo max then it's either in or out for Scotland. I think, as fellow members of the union, we must have a say on this question.

I can't be bothered if Scotland wants to leave the union, or stay, but if it does leave, things like daylight saving and fiscal policy will be decided without reference to Scotland.

The facts are it's not a delay, as you note, it's written into the original mandate. SNP are not breaking the rules or moving the goal posts (perhaps DC could learn something from that) in fact unlike most other parties, SNP are sticking to their pre election promise.

The reasoning behind the timing of the referendum may very well be as you've stated but that's politics. One could say, SNP have played this rather cleverly.
Only time will tell if that's true.

These threads always go the same way. Ignorant bigots pile in with the "you feckless wasters get everything paid for by my (English) taxes and we get nothing" crap.

Oh to have an intelligent debate on the issue hmm.

Or even.

I don't think this thread has gone that way. Have you read it?

Yes I have read it. We'll agree to disagree.

LemonDifficult..you are clearly very tolerant..JuicyFruits posts on this thread have been jaw dropping, going from patronising, sneering to truly obnoxious and back again

I think I'm only quite torelant! More through exhaustion.

When the Scottish 'Independence' debate comes up I'm used to tuning out the 'You are sponging off England' and the 'We are an Oppressed Nation' nutters. Unfortunately, it is just part of the discussion and those prejudices will come up. Only a small percentage of the voting population actually grasp the impact of restructuring our economic institutions.

I don't think this thread's been that bad for it, though. There was another AIBU which was a lot ruder!

You are a million times more tolerant than me..which admittedly isn't that hard as I have a 1mm fuse on here

Fanjo - if you reread what I said you will see that I did not say that Scots as a whole were intolerant. I did say that religious sectarianism is a completely alien concept in most of England.

Religious sectarianism is a completely alien concept in the part of Scotland that I live in.

It was a completely unheard of phenomenon in the area in which I grew up. Sadly not so here, south of Glasgow.

ElBurroSinNombre- yes the EDL are very tolerant of other cultures and beliefs...

What will happen if Scotland gets total independence?

Absolutely nothing, the rich will still be rich, the poor still poor and the economic downturn will continue.

all that will happen is that the SNP will have to change their wording slightly when placing the blame.

All politicians are the same no matter where they are, all lie, all greedy, self serving, all laying the blame elsewhere.

No one needs to be independent, we all just need to clean all the scum out of politics and install some people with honour and dignity.

If the government insisted that the super rich pay taxes instead of sending them offshore and if some of the millions of acres of land owned by private landowners and the government were freed up for housing and farming, that would be a good start.

There is a lot to sort out before tackling the independence issue.

But if Scotland were independent then the Scottish government could sort out these issues for scots, which they might actually do. In general Scotland can be quite left leaning, which is why we can't be happy being governed by a tory government from london.

I think it would be a disaster if we broke away completely and tried to go it alone. We are better together than apart and whilst you may not agree with everything the government are doing we have more influence together than if we go it alone.

I also don't have much faith in Scotland going alone when I consider the fiasco which was the build of Holyrood and the trams. I wouldn't trust them and my family and I would look to move down to England which my husband is dead against but thinks that would be a better option.

I also feel that a number of larger employers would leave Scotland, doing what to the economy?

yes the trams and the parly building are a worry, aren't they? but otoh, there is the motorway in glasgow that came in on time and under budget, so there are people in public service who can manage private companies.

To respond to niceguy2's comments:
Yes, we'd be the size of many small European countries, Eastern or otherwise. Don't see many of them clamouring to get back to being ruled by a bigger state. It's not the size that matters it's what you do with it

We don't have much clout in the EU just now. Look what's happened to our fishing industry. Malta has a seat at the table to decide on such matters, but Scotland doesn't. Being part of the UK hasn't helped us at all.

The oil won't last much longer? Well, they've been saying that all my life. Guess what? There's at least another 40 years left untapped. If the UK (or Scotland) had wisely invested the oil money since the 70s, like Norway's done instead of investing in wars, nukes etc, then we'd all be laughing. At least with independence, Scotland will have a chance at using what's left for the benefit of the people. We would get to keep the percentage that's in our waters, under international law. That's about 90%.

Sorry, but we're not we're not too poor/small/stupid to manage our own affairs.

interesting column on devo max ian bell

it's a good point he makes, if we are too shit to manage our own finances without england, why are the three parties against devo max? cut us loose on finance and we scots would get our arses skelped at no cost (in fact at a profit) to england.

The 'smaller' EU countries ARE ruled by a bigger state - it's called the EU. Look at the fate of Greece (and Italy, which is a big EU country) - the PM dared to suggest a referendum and he was out on his ear before bedtime. They are ruled by a dictatorship imposed by the EU. So is Italy. You may think this is A Good Thing for economic reasons (although at least one ratings agency disagrees and thinks the EU hasn't got its political or economic act together on the crisis - so not much hope for those imposed EU elite regimes either) but it is undeniable that it is the overthrow of democracy - no-one in Greece or Italy voted for their current leaders and the Italian premier isn't even an MP, IIRC.