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Politics

Independence for Scotland

199 replies

CogitoErgoSometimes · 09/01/2012 14:06

Cameron says 'get on with it'. Salmond is biding his time. Presumably both of them think an early referendum would earn a 'no' result. In an era where countries are banding together to weather the storms of international economics I'm not sure I quite understand why a very small nation would want to go it alone. Then again, is it a given that anyone that voted SNP automatically wants independence as they are suggesting? Or is it, same as in England, that they got in because they 'weren't Labour'...?

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fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 12/01/2012 23:06

Juicy, don't assume we are as bitter and small minded as you about the university thing, we don't love that you have to pay really, sounds like that's how you'd feel if it were reversed but don't tell us how we feel thanks

JuicyFruits · 12/01/2012 23:06

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K999 · 12/01/2012 23:07

I'm of the view "we'll take our chances"....

What always amazes me, is that the folk who bleat on about Scots wanting independence are the usually the same folk who moan that England subsidise Scotland??

LemonDifficult · 12/01/2012 23:09

DH (very very Scottish) reckons that the Scots don't really need or want a debate. He's just said:

'There's that many people who enjoy the romance of Little Nation Braveheart you'll get nowhere with your economics rants, Lemon'

This is probably true. And on a large scale, and to Scotland's detriment. It's all about money folks, and not the North Sea Oil type, either.

LemonDifficult · 12/01/2012 23:11

'I'm of the view "we'll take our chances"

Have you not looked at the fate of Ireland? Iceland? Greece? These are the kind of chances you'll be taking. That really is cutting off your nose..

JuicyFruits · 12/01/2012 23:13

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JuicyFruits · 12/01/2012 23:13

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K999 · 12/01/2012 23:15

I think you mean K999?

Fair point, but can I ask why you want Scotland to remain part of the union?

JuicyFruits · 12/01/2012 23:17

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JennyPiccolo · 12/01/2012 23:17

Wanting your vote to actually count? Guilty.

JuicyFruits · 12/01/2012 23:18

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K999 · 12/01/2012 23:18

Fair enough. But can you say why you want Scotland to remain part of the UK? I am genuinely interested.

K999 · 12/01/2012 23:20

Unfairness as you perceive it, is not the fault of the Scottish people/Parliament if you don't think there is financial unfairness. Not sure I follow your point there?

LemonDifficult · 12/01/2012 23:27

Re Not being about NS Oil money.

I meant, Scotland doesn't have an developed economic system or currency. Will we have to take the Euro? Can we issue bonds? What percentage of the UK debt will we take? etc, etc. Most Scots are oblivious to the economic realities.

Choosing the the Euro over Sterling isn't 'Independence', it's just swapping London for Berlin. Scots are mainly not interested in accepting that reality.

K999 · 12/01/2012 23:29

We'll have to agree to disagree Smile

I'm off to be now. Am knackered......

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 12/01/2012 23:30

There would be no divvying up of nukes, the SNP doesn't want them, and an independent Scotland would be nuclear free.

Scotland has vast natural resources, there was a study done showing that even on the worst estimates we can become more than self-sufficient in renewables, so we can sell power to you southerners (as well as water which we definitely don't lack!)

Scotland will do just fine on its own and yes it will be tough and yes there will be cuts. But they will be our problems, our cuts.

What I really don't get is on these threads the english always say:
-but england subsidises scotland
-scots are racist and xenophobic

So why the desperation to hang on to us, and why do you care i f we end up like Greece, are too small to support ourselves etc. If we are independent that won't be your problem and you'll be able to look on smugly and say told you so.

There are more giant pandas in Scotland than tory mps. How can it be fair for us to be governed from Westminster when none of us voted for the bastards. Give us our chance at self-deternination.

As for devo max, I don't get the problem with that. Why shouldn't scots have more autonomy without independence. Why do the folks in Westminster think they are better at deciding what is best for scotlnad.

And snp have done a bloody good job. Nhs scotland is far better than the english version with none of this creeping privatisation, the school system is better, our government chose to keep education free.

Can you tell I will be voting yes :-)

As for waiting until 2014 - surely you can see that independence is a huge step and should be a head over heart decision. And yes, of course money comes into it. We are not going to vote yes unless we believe Scotland can support itself, and from all the opposing views on this thread even this seemingly simple question still needs an answer. We need to know what we are voting for and I would actually be pretty impressed if 2014 is long enough to figure out all the details.

LemonDifficult · 12/01/2012 23:42

'Why do the folks in Westminster think they are better at deciding what is best for scotlnad.' Er, because they are 'Our' folks?! Scotland is currently represented at Westminster, y'know.

'As for devo max, I don't get the problem with that.' Cos it's a lot of power, with none of the tough responsibility - like, say, national debt and national defence?

'Scotland has vast natural resources, there was a study done showing that even on the worst estimates we can become more than self-sufficient in renewables, so we can sell power to you southerners (as well as water which we definitely don't lack!)' This is a dangerous fallacy. You are wrong.

Scottish energy companies are largely foreign owned, they will have there HQs elsewhere and Scottland will not be home to these companies. Last night I spoke to a senior figure in Scottish and Southern Energy - one of the few Scottish home-grown energy companies - and she said that they were concerned for their business if Independence goes ahead. What she actually said was 'We keep our English offices in Reading and could move our HQ there tomorrow if business conditions changed. We'd need to be pushed, but we're examining it'.

So, if senior business staff at Scotland's energy companies don't share Alex Salmond's view of an energy-driven economy then I don't see why the rest of us should be buying it.

JuicyFruits · 12/01/2012 23:51

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JuicyFruits · 12/01/2012 23:52

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Atomant · 12/01/2012 23:56

'Tis rather ironic that an unelected government head tried to dictate to an elected (by a landslide) government when to hold a vote on it's own future.

As for Ed slapping Dave on the back, Labour don't care about the union, not really, it's all about self preservation. Without Scotland, Labour are virtually unelectable in Westminster.

Surely our currently unelected PM must have more important things to focus on right now....

LemonDifficult · 12/01/2012 23:59

Don't you think the Constitution of the UK is very important, Atom? What should the PM focus on if not the actual components of the democracy he's head of?

ttosca · 13/01/2012 00:04

I wish the Scotts best of luck with their quest for liberation from the conservative English.

JuicyFruits · 13/01/2012 00:07

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ttosca · 13/01/2012 00:10

The 'woad'? What's that?

What do you mean?

JuicyFruits · 13/01/2012 00:11

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