Occupy London

[glasnost]

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Well, why not MNers?

What have your kids got to lose? In NY there are alot of families with children protesting and occupying that doesn't get mentioned in the mainstream press.

Ta for that Disputandum. I'd been thinking about thay ever since my tour of duty on those Dale Farm threads. Why doesn't the church offer the evictees sanctuary and why don't ppl get up in arms about how much land the church and Crown own? I digress.

Apparently the City of London is a corporate sponsor of St. Paul's. How's that for an unholy alliance? The Occupation is staying put it seems.

claig the elf and safety angle is tried and tested method to defuse movements.

glasnost I'm back! From outer space I just walked in to find you here with that sad look - oh, wrong song. Yes, the Dale Farm thing did make me want to bleach my eyes. But hey. Occupy Everything presses on but still a bit vague on programme firm plans as it were. Still think they could do with an organisation of some sort...

I've got a bet on with dp - he thinks your initials are CG, I think they're HS. This could be worth up to, ooh, £3.50, maybe even £4.

I meant the London Stock Exchange is a sponsor of St. Paul's.

What's with the bet on my initials? Totally random or you think you know me? I could tell you my name but there're some weirdy types on here (espesh on the Dale Farm threads!)

They could do with some organisation. SWP wheedled their way in and will be browbeating and haranguing occupiers no doubt but where's "our" lot?

Probably not know, but know of. May have met, eg Strike Support Group late 90's?

'your' lot are only kind of partially 'my' lot iyswim

ISWYM anyway my initials are neither CG, nor HS.

That's the problem with The Left though. It's so fragmented. Unity is needed.

Yay! At least the "Occupy London" moment have accomplished something!

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-15406865

To be fair, I'm not sure if they meant that to happen but hey at least something has happened!

I'm not seeing a rush of politician's crapping themselves like the Expenses scandal, nor the country grinding to a halt like the petrol protests. It'll all be over in two weeks when the media get bored of nothing happening, it gets colder and the rain sets in.

The Left seem incapable of applying the phrase 'unity is strength'. Even in the face of massive onslaught by the Condems, how many anti-cuts campaigns have we got? Tony Benn was right 'too many socialist parties and not enough socialists'.

It's like herding cats, that's why. I, for one, am quite happy to forgo my feline nature for the cause though alice hargreaves nee liddell!!

Don't get 'hargreaves' Is that you? Having slagged off the comrades, I should confess to my failure to attend the 'Hardest Hit' Anti Cuts stall today due almost entirely to general arsing about.

Hargreaves was alice (in wonderland) liddell's married name. Or is Alice Liddell your real name? In which case well done as I think MNters should emerge from the shadows and use their real names on certain boards. Would prevent alot of pettiness.

Back to Occupation. It's going ahead despite St. Paul's spurious attempts to oust them. I reckon they're more bothered about takings being down.

www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/oct/22/second-occupy-london-finsbury-square

It's spreading.

Canon Peter Bruinvels, a member of the General Synod, said the financial losses caused by the closure were a tragedy. "Clearly now the demonstrators should pack up their tents and go. St Paul's is a greater cause than theirs and they should acknowledge that. The cathedral is losing £20,000 for every day it is shut. It gets no state support. It cannot afford to be shut."

A straw poll of visitors suggested that more than three-quarters believe the Occupy camp complemented the lure of St Paul's.

YY glasnost St Pauls v. disappointing there. I have a vague memory of some bloke going on about money lenders, temples, camels, needles....ut apparently the Finsbury Sq camp is filling up instead.
I've read the occupy events are all v male dominated. The presence of all those Anonymous boys doesn't inspire confidence
Didn't know about the married name thing.

There are some girls under the masks! It's quite androgynous.

Well, we'll see. I'm bitter and twisted and mistrust all invisible, equallist things now; do stuff explicitly for the benefit of working, class women and hit the desired target.

You could be right. Still, I think in desperate times such as these ANY form of protest guaranteed to make the powers that be sit up and take notice is legit. The danger is the movement will come to be seen in folkloristic terms as times passes and Brian Haw syndrome sets in. The occupations must proliferate and evolve constantly for them to work. From ears on the ground I've been assured the political aspect is much more pronounced than the media makes out as it was in NY.

Oh and "our" lot (or "my" lot if you will) are present too.

You run the risk of 'it'll be alright after the revolution, love'.

Interesting to note that Giles Fraser, the cathedral's chancellor, has resigned, apparently over differences on how to respond to the protests. Fraser was initially very willing to accommodate the protestors, but was obviously side-lined within the cathedral last week (suddenly all the officially pronouncements were coming from the dean rather than from him). As a Christian I'm frustrated with the tone coming from the cathedral since the dean took over from Fraser as its media voice. It seems to have shifted to an obsessive focus on how much dosh the cathedral is losing. Horror of horrors the gift shop has been closed! And the coffeeshop! I can't imagine Jesus losing much sleep over this (and judging by his actions in turfing merchants and money changers out of the Temple in Jerusalem he mightn't have been too hot on giftshops either. Indeed the preservation of old buildings doesn't seem to have been high on his agenda). It makes the Church of England look like the ecclesiastical wing of the National Trust rather than a Christian church established to preach the gospel. I have mixed feelings about the protests, but Fraser was at least trying to articulate a Christian response rather than twittering on about preserving old buildings and choral evensong.

From the snippets I've read so far about Frasers resignation it seems he's concerned about what 'might' happen than about what actually is happening. And he's said the discussions with his colleagues have been 'incredibly thoughtful'. So it's not exactly fire & brimstone stuff. It looks at the moment as though accommodation may be made between the Cathedral & the protesters so maybe his pre-emptive action may be unnecessary? None of the statements I've read that have come from the Church itself have been critical of the protest itself, yet there's been a lot of finger pointing from the left-leaning press trying to make it out as this awful capitalist villain. It doesn't particularly surprise me but it's pretty depressing. I don't personally feel, from what I know as an outsider, that the Cathedral had done anything wrong. The Church & St Paul's can't function on fresh air. Who can? Also feel the 'throwing the moneylenders out' stuff is a bit disingenuous (that's not aimed at you personally btw, have lost count of the number of times that's been bandied about!). Jesus didn't shut the temple down

I'm sure the church don't want to look like they are being capitalist pigs by focussing on the money they are losing. But at the same time each day that goes on, they're losing money whilst bills rack up.

Just in the same way that if I couldn't get to work and so wasn't going to get paid because some idiot had barricaded themselves into my office, I'd be getting mad too.

At the end of the day the protestor's really need to think about what they're achieving. The bankers are all still going to work, the politician's don't seem at all bothered. The only people who are suffering are the church. Is that what they really want?

How can you possibly compare this shower, who have only caused harm to the wrong target, with the amazing, focussed and effective Mr Haw.

If only this lot had 1% of his standards, then they wouldn't have misfired so disastrously.

"Amazing, focused, effective (and dead) Mr. Haw" meditrina. Else I suspect you'd be hounding him for elf and safety spurious reasons, too.

No, nothing had to close for that protest.

I thought his protest timely, enduring and effective and it got right up the noses of people it was targeted against.

That is simply not true of those who have had an impact only on the Church of England (not even an RC church, where you might make a case for global reach). They are not in his league, and it is an insult to him to associate them.