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Politics

Occupy London

288 replies

glasnost · 07/10/2011 12:38

p.twimg.com/AbGk1-FCQAAjoi7.png

Well, why not MNers?

What have your kids got to lose? In NY there are alot of families with children protesting and occupying that doesn't get mentioned in the mainstream press.

OP posts:
glasnost · 07/10/2011 15:45

Do it FOR your kids I meant in previous post.

OP posts:
chibi · 07/10/2011 15:54

as far as i know, none of this has gotten any mention in the mainstream press- i have no clear idea what is going on

Prolesworth · 07/10/2011 15:55

here's the facebook event page chibi: www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=255151111189948

whomovedmychocolate · 07/10/2011 15:55

do you know, I think that may not work somehow.

whomovedmychocolate · 07/10/2011 15:57

I am not sure what is practically hoped to be achieved by these occupations but honestly, I would not take my children to be kettled for something which can never succeed IMHO.

KatharineClifton · 07/10/2011 15:57

It all helps whomovedmychocolate.

whomovedmychocolate · 07/10/2011 16:04

How? Hmm

Rivenwithoutabingle · 07/10/2011 16:04

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

KatharineClifton · 07/10/2011 16:15

Seriously? You want me to spell it out whomovedmychocolate? Ok, all dissent helps us being screwed by government.

whomovedmychocolate · 07/10/2011 16:18

Yes I want you to explain exactly how going to London and blocking up a bridge will resolve the global financial crisis (aside from perhaps putting a few quid in the pocket of the train company that gets you there).

whomovedmychocolate · 07/10/2011 16:21

And how are we getting screwed by government, is it better to let the country to run up more and more debt till we are just like Greece only with crapper weather ?

We have to work with what we have as a country. The price for living as we have for the last twenty years is what has to be paid. Or would you prefer it to be passed to your children instead? And their children.

I disagree with a lot of the government's policies but really, do you have an alternative which is viable?

MrPants · 07/10/2011 16:51

whomovedmychocolate I think I love you! Thank Christ there's another out there for whom the penny has dropped. I thought I was alone.

Everyone must realise by now that however rich we thought we were before the crash it was just an illusion - We were never really as rich as we thought we were. The only reason that we seemed to be so wealthy was because we were buying stuff for ourselves (both as people via personal debt, and as a country through national debt) with money that belonged to other people. Not unreasonably, those other people would like their money to be paid back at some point, preferably with interest and preferably with a currency which is as valuable as that which they lent to us with in the first place.

Anything that doesn't address this basic premise is just La-La land economics.

ttosca · 07/10/2011 17:15

Christ. It's depressing how some people have bought the Tory narrative of 'public profligacy'.

The situation we're in right now is caused by the financial crisis, bailout, recession, and loss of tax receipts. It's not because the public have been spoiled silly with lavish public spending, or by buying themselves yachts and trips to Monaco.

Real wages have remained stagnant for three decades, due to neo-liberal ideology. People are, in fact, poorer in real terms today than they were two decades ago. Meanwhile, the cost of living has soared. People are just trying to make ends meet.

While the public are suffering, wealth inequality hasn't been this bad since the Victorian era. The richest are becoming filty rich at the expense of everyone else. The banks collapse, and the public bail them out. The ratio of the lowest paid workers to CEOs has increased enormously in the past decade. The richest are swimming in money while pilfering the wages from the hard work of the vast majority of the public.

People did take out loans, and they did use credit cards. That's because they needed credit to pay for the basic cost of living; to pay for their insane house prices, the most expensive public transport system in europe, the rocketing petrol prices, the souring gas and electric bills.

We will stay mired in a depression/recession, until people actually have money to spend. The problem isn't just that shops and businesses don't have access to loans, but that there is no consumer demand out there because everyone is broke.

Quick and easy access to credit was pushed on to consumers in order for the rich to have their cake and eat it too: this way, they could keep shafting workers by suppressing wages and workers rights, but at the same time, keep up demand for consumer goods and services. Now that people no longer have access to credit, there is no demand, because everyone is broke.

The insane policy of the Tories is to further slash spending, cutting down growth, and cutting public services, making people poorer and life more difficult and uncertain for the public. They are less likely to spend money when they don't see jobs or a future, and can't even rely on basic services anymore.

For God's sake, the enemy isn't the public, most of whom are just trying to get by. The enemy are the leeches at the top who are sucking people dry.

Rivenwithoutabingle · 07/10/2011 17:17

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

whomovedmychocolate · 07/10/2011 17:23

The situation we're in right now is caused by the financial crisis, bailout, recession, and loss of tax receipts. It's not because the public have been spoiled silly with lavish public spending, or by buying themselves yachts and trips to Monaco.

What a load of bollocks. The financial crisis was caused by....wait for it....overspending. The bailout had to happen because of poor lending practices, encouraged to facilitate growth (ha!) through....overspending.

The recession is a result of....overspending.

This isn't an individual problem but a collective issue. It's the state's responsibility to do everything these days and you are acknowledging that by identifying them as the villain of the piece.

People chose to get credit. FWIW I didn't. I was raised to save up for stuff. Perhaps that's why I am solvent?

And as for the 'leeches' at the top - I guess that'd be me then. We pay 65% tax. Which makes it tempting to fuck off to Malta really. Yes we are really getting away with murder Hmm

There is no way to do this without cutting services. Really there isn't. Unless you propose that all public servants don't get paid for about oooh twenty years.

CogitoErgoSometimes · 07/10/2011 17:25

The people of NYC can do as they wish if they are unhappy. Personally, in order to guarantee my child a future, I would rather do something more constructive than block traffic.

whomovedmychocolate · 07/10/2011 17:31

Why don't you all, instead of going and occupying a bridge (trip trap reference goes here) why don't you round up any unwanted stuff, take it to a car boot sale, sell it then give the proceeds to your chosen public service that you support so strongly?

Prolesworth · 07/10/2011 17:32

you think the NHS should be funded by car boot sales? Confused

whomovedmychocolate · 07/10/2011 17:34

No, but I think if you want to do something about it you have to get off your arse and do something about it and standing on a bridge isn't doing that.

Prolesworth · 07/10/2011 17:39

voicing dissent is 'doing something about it'

So according to you the NHS shouldn't be funded through car boot sales but donating the proceeds from car boot sales would be a more politically effective way to protest than stopping the traffic in central London?

a) raising money for the NHS at car boot sales = completely missing the point
b) which action would get more attention: thousands of people blocking westminster bridge or me selling shit at a car boot sale?

claig · 07/10/2011 17:41

'I would rather do something more constructive than block traffic.'

Is bending over for another kick and licking boots constructive?

claig · 07/10/2011 17:45

whomovedmychocolate, people want to protest what has been happening. They want to show their discontent. Supporting their local public services will change nothing. It may even result in pay increases for the fat cats.

It's amazing it has taken this long for any real dissent. But I do wonder why it has taken so long, and if it has been co-ordinated for political reasons that the bulk of protestors are not really aware of.

whomovedmychocolate · 07/10/2011 18:01

Yes, you don't like it. I get that. Frankly, I don't like it either. But it's one of those bitter pills we have to swallow and if we get on with it, it will be over quicker.

Did anyone really believe the country had the money for the plethora of services we received? Really? Hmm

There's been lots of dissent - some might say the riots in London in the summer were a sign of that (and not just of bored people who wanted tellies for free) - but did they achieve much?

Anyway, it's the start of flu season, you are risking NHS budgets Wink

CogitoErgoSometimes · 07/10/2011 18:01

A kick and licking boots?? Hmm No, in order to assure my child's future I'll be carrying on as normal, supporting him in every way I can and I'll save my protests for the ballot box. Tbh.. I like whomovedmychocolate's suggestion. Getting off the collective arse and making a positive contribution however small sounds a lot more likely to lead to improvements in society than standing in the middle of some road looking earnest.

whomovedmychocolate · 07/10/2011 18:04

Claig bending over for another kick? I'd rather be kicked than my children to be honest. If the metaphorical kick is that public services get cut now so that later on my kids have the chance of a career and a decent life.

And in terms of licking shoes....nah you'd be wrong there. I'm active in the parish Westminster wise. I don't just talk about it on bridges.

But no-one yet has explained what tangible difference is to be made by standing on a bridge.

Except the flu thing previously mentioned Wink