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Politics

Why the Tories are bastards

113 replies

breadandbutterfly · 02/10/2011 13:06

Came across this today whilst researching something else - may explain a lot why George Osborne just doesn't 'get' the problems with his ideas - may also explain some of the attitudes of some of our fellow posters. :)

www.economist.com/node/16690659

OP posts:
niceguy2 · 02/10/2011 13:34

Yeah cos all Labour MP's are all paupers themselves right?

Oh wait.....no they're not!

order-order.com/2010/10/11/shadow-cabinet-of-millionaires/

Maisiethemorningsidecat · 02/10/2011 13:39

Yes, because the bastard (the same one who is now lining his own grubby pockets) that sent us to an illegal war was also a Tory, wasn't he? Oh no, I believe he wasn't. Or the party that decimated our manufacturing industry, created the most complex tax system in Europe and created more child poverty than ever before were Tory too, weren't they? Oh no, wait a minute, that will be the other lot too.

Stop with the all Tories are bastards line. Labour are just bastardy. In fact, all politicians, regardless of which side of the house they sit on, are egotistical despots.

CogitoErgoSometimes · 02/10/2011 13:54

As the research was run in California, wouldn't it be safe to assume that the participants in the research were American?.... a country where 'government' is regarded as a not-particularly-necessary evil and 'tax' is synonymous with 'robbery'?

breadandbutterfly · 02/10/2011 17:28

@niceguy - the tongue was firmly in cheek with the title - and yes, I absolutely agree that it explains why Labour has veered so far to the right of recent years, and why Ed Miliband, try though he might, is still having problems connecting with the populace.

Do you not regard it as problematic that those supposedly representing our interests at Westminster are frequently from backgrounds so very far removed from those they purport to represent?

Whilst undoubtedly there are honourable exceptions that prove the rule, I think this research does show why having a government comprised largely of children of multimillionaires is problematic, as THEY JUST DON'T REALLY CARE ABOUT ORDINARY/OTHER PEOPLE.

OP posts:
aquashiv · 02/10/2011 17:54

Maisiethemorningsidecat I think you have framed the wrong party with the decimation of manufacutring and industry that wonderful little gem shall always belong to Thatcher. As for illegal wars come on yourself the Tories were in full support and if Blair hadnt gone in he would have been blasted.

Still dont let a bin of spin get in the way of the facts.

CogitoErgoSometimes · 02/10/2011 18:00

I don't think a wealthy background makes someone automatically incapable of empathy. In fact, I have more problems with people who harp on about their impoverished 'roots' as if that makes them somehow more qualified to care... because my experience has been that people who have dragged themselves up by their boot-straps are more likely to expect others to do the same rather than less.

PeachyWhoCannotType · 02/10/2011 18:07

Oh fgs

I am not a fan of Tory politics, just not my philosophy or natural leaning, but there are many Tories in RL I like. One or two I don't admittedly but the same goes of any political leaning amongst my social circle.

As for rich people are incapable of empathy- ffs.

There's a book due out soon about empathy with a big hype and people are jumping on the bandwagon is all. Silly really as the key concepts as far as I can work out are outdated anyway (my research is centred on empathy and ASD so know a little) but why would that get in the way of saleable pop psychology at it's worst.

PeachyWhoCannotType · 02/10/2011 18:07

'because my experience has been that people who have dragged themselves up by their boot-straps are more likely to expect others to do the same rather than less.

there's some truth in there; the 'I did so you can even if your life is vastly different to mine' brigade

Gigondas · 02/10/2011 18:10

I think part of issue is why would anyone go into politics? The time commitment and fact that people seem to start younger and younger . This adds to lack of empathy as you get caught in a political bubble, often not doing/having much of a career before becoming a career politician. I know this happened in past but heseltine, thatcher , foot etc all did something else as well as politics.

I dont want to divert this onto an expenses claim rant but that whole saga amongst other points flagged a sense of being isolated and out of touch with what goes on I'm rest of world (ie put your hand in till like that with most jobs you wouldn't get very far)

Tortington · 02/10/2011 18:10

i think that in general working class and upper class people have amazingly right wing views

its the mc who are pink liberals, helping puppies and poor people n stuff Grin

Iggly · 02/10/2011 18:13

I have an issue that most politicians are career politicians. They Ghent done much or anything outside of politics and they get bound up by their theories etc then wonder why it doesn't work so get sucked into politics by PR.

Tory, Labour or Lib Dems - it matters not.

PeachyWhoCannotType · 02/10/2011 18:14

Oi there with your MC claptrap Custy Wink

Though I seem to remember I do 'own' the name PinkoLiberal LMAO. My family are all WC and pinkos (not sister's branch but the rest) but that might just be us.



Gigondas absolutely agree; local party asked me to stand, even offered a place to study Social Policy at a good uni: nope. Wouldn't want to spend that much time with politicians lest I turn into one of them !.

PeachyWhoCannotType · 02/10/2011 18:15

Sorry the university offered me me a place- God forbid the local party started funding places

Tortington · 02/10/2011 18:18

firmly wc in upsbringing here, and exception to my own rule - i think generally ime its true.

took me ages to get a friend of mine who lived on the same rough as shit estate as me - to register to vote.

then she voted bnp

Shock

i thought i got through to her and on the next election she told me she was going to vote tory.

i told her that allm the benefits she would be recieving wou;ld be cut.

she said she would always get the disability benefit for her disabled child - they wouldnlt touch that

Hmm

CogitoErgoSometimes · 02/10/2011 18:39

The 'bootstrap' remark is exactly why Milliband took the line he did this week. He's finally realising what Thatcher realised decades earlier that the working classes don't necessarily want 'caring for' (very passive) but that they are quite ambitious, want opportunity for betterment & expect effort to be matched by reward. What they don't like seeing are others appearing to be rewarded for no effort.

niceguy2 · 02/10/2011 18:40

Do you not regard it as problematic that those supposedly representing our interests at Westminster are frequently from backgrounds so very far removed from those they purport to represent?

Let me think...would I rather have a successful (aka rich) businessman in charge of the nation or a couple of Vickie Pollards & Frank Gallagher's to represent us just because they are closer to our backgrounds! Confused

But as Iggly's already pointed out, I am much more concerned with the fact that nowadays people become career politician's rather than having had working experience. With the previous lot, I think the only one of them who used to have a proper job was Two Jags Prescott.

I do find tiresome is the sheer bias that some people have. And that's if Labour announced the same policy it would be sensible but if the Tories announce it then the worst is assumed.

Bread, if you are so concerned then the solution is simple. Stand as a MP. It seems a bit rich to berate others for having the gumption to stand for election if you are not prepared to do something about it.

Tortington · 02/10/2011 18:42

id rather have frank gallagher sobered up any day. intelligent man that man.

Chandon · 02/10/2011 18:51

Having lived in poor countries, I would defo say the poorer people are, the more generous they are too.

I found it was people with low paid menial jobs who ALWAYS gave something to street beggars.

Tryharder · 02/10/2011 18:56

I have read quite a few threads in recent days and whenever CogitoErgoSometimes writes something, I end up nodding in agreement. I agree totally with what she said.

.

claig · 02/10/2011 18:57

aquashiv, Maisie was right about manufacturing declining more under Labour than Thatcher. I was surprised the first time I heard it, because if you believed Labour speeches and the media in general, you would never guess. The FT did the study.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1232897/Manufacturing-decline-Labour-greater-Margaret-Thatcher.html

ttosca · 02/10/2011 19:05

niceguy-

Let me think...would I rather have a successful (aka rich) businessman in charge of the nation or a couple of Vickie Pollards & Frank Gallagher's to represent us just because they are closer to our backgrounds! confused

I think you should question why it is that so many people in Parliament and positions of power are Lords, Ladies, Barons, Baronesses, etc. and Oxbridge educated. Something is obviously wrong there. It's indicative of a prejudice and lack of class mobility when able and intelligent people from different backgrounds are not represented nearly as much as they could be.

I do find tiresome is the sheer bias that some people have. And that's if Labour announced the same policy it would be sensible but if the Tories announce it then the worst is assumed.

Golly, can you think of a reason why people might assume the worst from the Tories? Anything to do with history, perhaps?

CogitoErgoSometimes · 02/10/2011 19:12

They aren't Lords and Baronesses before they get to Parliament. Hereditary peers are long gone and the ones we have today are there o because of their contribution either in the Commons, commerce or some other walk of life. People like Valerie (Baroness) Amos - born in Guyana and educated at a grammar - got there after an impressive career in equality and social justice including a time as head of the Equal Opportunities Commission.

breadandbutterfly · 02/10/2011 19:13

@Peachy - this article (assuming you actually bothered to read it Hmm ) is certainly not a reaction to any recent book - it was published in 2010. I just happpened to come across it today.

@cogito - I agree, on the whole, that people who dragged themselves up by the bootstraps at least have an understanding of what life was like before they dragged themselves up, and a can-do attitude. The problem is George Osborne, Cameron etc did nothing of the kind - they were born with the proverbial silver spoon, and then, like Nick Clegg, their parents sharp-elbowed their way through everything else. Cameron, as is well known, got his leg up through family contacts etc etc.

I'd have a lot more respect for them if they were self-made millionaires; as it is, there is nothing in their previous lives which suggests they understand how ordinary people live and nothing in their actions either. Which would not be a problem per se - but is a problem because as our elected representatives they are supposed to..y'know...represent us. :(

OP posts:
CogitoErgoSometimes · 02/10/2011 19:22

Again, I don't see the 'silver spoon' thing as a problem. The kind of person that takes money as a given and doesn't care about anything or anyone is unlikely to go into politics. Selfish, money-oriented people wouldn't want to expose themselves to public approbation for the relatively average wage an MP gets. There are lots of far easier ways to enjoy their millions quietly somewhere else

claig · 02/10/2011 19:26

'Selfish, money-oriented people wouldn't want to expose themselves to public approbation for the relatively average wage an MP gets.'

It's not about wages, it's about power and influence. The ruling classes, liberal elites and Etonians always entered politics, but not for the wages.

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