Michael Gove is comprehensively destroying the teaching unions

[longfingernails]

Just look at the wailing and gnashing of teeth over at the Guardian!
www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/may/23/gove-struggling-schools-education-policy

Crap schools should buck up or close. Good ones should expand. Headteachers should sack crap teachers, and give raises/bonuses/promotions to good ones, irrespective of seniority. It's that simple.

I wonder how many Guardian writers send their children to bog-standard comprehensives? They regularly censor any comment which lists the former schools of their most prominent commentators, which show how pretty much all of them have been privately educated themselves.

Anyway, the effective loss of of national bargaining for the teaching unions is a tremendous achievement. Congratulations, Mr Gove!

The difficulty is that

Cain,

As has been pointed out to you, people are not widgets - one teacher in a quiet middle class school would struggle in an inner city school with "challenging" pupils. That much is immediately obvious to anyone who teaches - in fact you can do two lessons in entirely the same way and have different reactions from people - so much for your league tables and standards... I work in the corporate sector and the educational sector in a VERY challenging and innovative environment and there are lots of slackers and time wasters who just do nothing and survive in larger businesses - they get absorbed into the system - do the minimum and scrape by.

I do agree, however, that there is no form of professional mentoring and inspiration but so long as we have an education system predicated on data and league tables rather than learning what we need for the living in the 21st century then you will get a disaffected workforce. There are many, many teachers who do have a "can do" attitude and with right senior management (or when they achieve senior management) these issues are addressed. I agree a lot of CPD is not self-starting but what do you expect from a workforce who is expected not to have any initiative but just micro-manage "league-tables". South Korea ditched league tables in favour of local excellence and they haven't looked back. People reconnected with what they were teaching and not teaching towards a test.

It's all and well wanting "competition" (what a vague and rather unscientific term) rather than the substance of a good education. Google would never have happened here because creativity, insight and entrepreneurial zeal has been quashed by successive governments and they don't know one end of a computer from another. Compare like with like and stop making vague anecdotal pronouncements that don't really add up.

Eviltwins My son plays out most days, but he should be given homework by the school, they know the syllabus for this term. I know that the state schools only provide the children with the bare bones to get them into a state schools, if you want your child to get into a selective school or independent sschool, you will need a tutor. I have provided a tutor for my child. If I did not have a tutor my child would hardly be doing any homework! I understand what you are saying that their is more to life than homework, and I hope I provide that for my children just had four children playing in my house and outside all day!
I am rightly arguing two positions. The school should provide more homework and yes parents like myself have to do it at home with him. I still think many state schools are shite, I went to one myself! As said it is not all down to the school.
Most teachers' my child has had have been fine, although they will still not mark more than four mistakes in a essay. I feel that is the difference between the state and private sector, the marking and the 'provisions' that can be provided by state schools. I also think that 30 in a class is far too high. This government and the previous should stop giving billions in foreign aid and start reducing the class sizes!
Claig a 'league table for politicians and policy makers' You are dead right!
Unfortunately I do live a Guardinista area, and believe me you have to watch yourself!

LFN 'Guardian readers sending their children to bog standard comprehensives'.
Hardly...Even Cameron bypassed 15 schools to send his daughter to a lovely state school in near Hyde Park. If he is so PC why did he not send his daughter to the nearest school to his home. I'll tell you why , because 98 percent of the children are foreign/first language not being English and he wanted his daughter to go to a school with a 'village atmosphere' like his old home town of Witney West Oxfordshire! He also joined the congregation
at the Church attached to the school for two years previouse to get his daughter into the school. Hypocrite!

'Unfortunately I do live a Guardianista area, and believe me you have to watch yourself!'

I can well imagine. Keep a low profile, wear a hair shirt, and talk about the 'carbon footprint' and 'sustainability' at the post office. If you feel up to it, even buy one if teh 5 available copies of the Guardian. That way no one will know you're not one of them.

That's if there still is a post office. Some of those socialists tried to do away with them.

Cain - I currently teach in a school which is in special measures. We, as teaching staff, do have lesson observations and quality checks weekly - there is always a possibility that SLT will come in with a form to tick boxes on. I think that when we come out of SM (soon, we think - OFSTED are waiting til after summer results to start the process) the vast majority of teachers will have benefitted from this - in other schools I've taught in, OFSTED inspections have been incredibly stressful because everyone is trying to tick all those boxes every lesson, where they usually would be more relaxed. However, for us, pulling of box-ticking lessons has become habit - so yes, in some ways, the constant observations have been good. HOWEVER (and it's a big however), the effect on morale has been incredibly bad - the feeling that you are not trusted, as a professional, to be doing your job as you should be has chipped away at a great many people's confidence. If you were subjecting all teachers to such scrutiny as a matter of course, I believe it would be catastrophic. What other profession is subject to weekly checks and scrutinies?

complimentary - I disagree with you on many levels. For a start, I don't believe in parents using tutors to get their DCs into selective schools (if you're talking state grammar - I don't give a fig what you do to get your child into the private sector) as it means that grammar schools are about whether or not a child's parents can afford the tutoring, rather than about merit, and then there are the DCs who are heavily tutored to get through the exam and then can't keep up with the work once they get to the school. Secondly, as a teacher, it bugs me to hell that parents bang on about homework. It's only one small part of a child's education. I taught for several years in a secondary school with a policy of no homework. The students still did very well. And no, it wasn't in a leafy middle-class area. Your assertion that marking more than four mistakes in an essay is the difference between state and private schools is just laughable. Finally, you are clearly basing your entire argument on the fact that you went to a state school which you considered to be "shite". To leap from your own school to "many state school are shite" is a bit much.

Better clarify before I get jumped on - IME, plenty of parent bang on about homework not being set, but then don't support the school in terms of discipline, attending school events, turning up to parents evening etc. It's the one bit of school that parents see and so they go on and on about it. Personally, I don't believe primary school children should be getting it anyway. There's plenty that parents can do with their children to enhance their learning without resorting to worksheets.

touristfromthefutureMon 30-May-11 18:03:26

Cain,

As has been pointed out to you, people are not widgets - one teacher in a quiet middle class school would struggle in an inner city school with "challenging" pupils. That much is immediately obvious to anyone who teaches - in fact you can do two lessons in entirely the same way and have different reactions from people - so much for your league tables and standards... I work in the corporate sector and the educational sector in a VERY challenging and innovative environment and there are lots of slackers and time wasters who just do nothing and survive in larger businesses - they get absorbed into the system - do the minimum and scrape by.

Not in my experience. And why can one teacher not develop with support to work in different environments? That attitude is just encouraging underachievement in teachers.

It's all and well wanting "competition" (what a vague and rather unscientific term) rather than the substance of a good education.
unscientific? becuase education is purely a science presumably? You contradict yourself if as you say, people are not widgets. Why do people think competition is automatically negative?

Compare like with like and stop making vague anecdotal pronouncements that don't really add up.
Such as? I think you will find that the business model I describe does work - unike the current strategy in the education system where crap teachers are given no incentive to improve.

Cain - do you work in education? Just wondering where you get the idea taht crap teachers have no incentive to improve. I would have thought that most would consider being placed on competency procedure where the final stage is loss of post could be considered an incentive.

If you were subjecting all teachers to such scrutiny as a matter of course, I believe it would be catastrophic. What other profession is subject to weekly checks and scrutinies?

A I said EvilTwins, in my line of business performance is assessed daily but it sounds like the culture is different. You describe a desperate, panic stations type of box ticking which will of course be highly stressful whereas what I envision is a far more positive and laid back type of assessment - if it were ongoing and treated as development it would not be as you describe.

EvilTwinsMon 30-May-11 18:51:14

Cain - do you work in education? Just wondering where you get the idea taht crap teachers have no incentive to improve. I would have thought that most would consider being placed on competency procedure where the final stage is loss of post could be considered an incentive.

So why are your two colleagues not taking the help they are offered? How long is this process? And do the lose their post or are they moved elsewhere?

Cain - We'll have to disagree then won't we but I do have experience of both systems, where as you seem to have none other than your own personal anecdote - (I may be wrong but you haven't given me cause to think otherwise).

When you have masters level teachers who are conducting action research into their practice based on reflection and local circumstance all standards rise no matter how you measure it or whatever context. Make people dependent they just become dependent. The reality is some people work in much harsher and more difficult environments than others and that is not an excuse for dependency - it is a case for good management but adequate resources.

If one teacher in a state school has 40 children's work to mark and one in a private school has 15 children's work to mark then who has the most onerous task in purely in terms of time to person ratios on any objective standard? You cannot claim to want "league tables" based on a norm if there are too many parameters to judge - it won't work - it's not going to work and never will work. In fact the only thing passing muster as a good correlation of achievement has been free school dinners. Your argument doesn't hold sway merely because you say so I'm afraid. Anecdote not data as usual.

Cain - do you work in education?
I take it that's a no.

My two colleagues have, I agree, not done as they should have. The one who is rarely in school has finally lost her job, and until she is sorted, health-wise, will not, I expect, be working anywhere. The second is a very intelligent woman who cannot function in the school she currently teaches in. It's a shame that she has not taken any of the help on offer - both for her and for those colleagues who were giving that help and making arrangements and offering training etc etc. She will not be moving elsewhere either. I don't know where you get this "are they moved elsewhere" thing anyway. Do you imagine that deals are forged between schools? Because that's not how it happens. Both had three options:

1. Resign and apply for other jobs.
2. Resign
3. Wait until they were dismissed.

The first was dismissed, the second resigned.

touristfromthefutureMon 30-May-11 19:14:05

Cain - We'll have to disagree then won't we but I do have experience of both systems, where as you seem to have none other than your own personal anecdote - (I may be wrong but you haven't given me cause to think otherwise).
You are quite right, I don't and have never worked in the education system but I am a parent who has removed their child from a school because of inadequate teaching, the various threads and articles I have read don't indicate that there is enough done to develop inadequate teachers. But fine, it you want to dismiss my 'anecdotal' opinion rather than give me a substantial reason to think otherwise what can I say?

If one teacher in a state school has 40 children's work to mark and one in a private school has 15 children's work to mark then who has the most onerous task in purely in terms of time to person ratios on any objective standard?

Why woud you make that example? Seems quite obtuse to me. Of course it isn't comparable unless you look on a pro rata basis but you can compare the achievements of teachers in a state school against each other, and why not?

You cannot claim to want "league tables" based on a norm if there are too many parameters to judge - it won't work - it's not going to work and never will work. In fact the only thing passing muster as a good correlation of achievement has been free school dinners. Your argument doesn't hold sway merely because you say so I'm afraid. Anecdote not data as usual.
Of course, it never can because no one wants to try anything difficult or different, every obstacle would be put in the way to ensure it didn't work.

I'm all for a reform of the education system because everything I read indicates that our system (sorry, the english system - I was educated in Scotland) isn't good enough and putting my opinion down because it is anecdote rather than data doesn't convince me you are better placed to judge than I.

Evil Twins

If people do not respond to positive mentoring (rather than constructive dismissal) then I have no time for them. They deserve to go and go quickly. If you are offered a support network and you still cannot raise your game then you are definitely not suited to the environment. If departments and practice are more open and transparent between teachers then everyone gets to see good practice and poor practice and how they can improve - ask the students they'll tell you. Hide it away and people fail alone. It's fairly obvious. "Some" teachers self-esteem is not good in this respect - I'm sorry but we are all adults and they should "get over it". Cain would rightly tell you they'd be gone in seocnds with that attitude in business - although I still maintain some people are good a hiding bad working. A lot more schools are starting pupil mentoring schemes - yes you heard correctly - pupils mentoring teachers - it is working really well...

EvilTwinsMon 30-May-11 19:21:32

Cain - do you work in education?
I take it that's a no.

Sorry, I didn't realise it was a requirement in order to have an opinion on the education system.

I have read a few posts from teachers indicating that the poor teachers are moved around rather than address their failings - I assumed this was common practice if teachers were commenting on it.

To add - if you like children and engage with them and are concerned about them you usually do pretty well but bad management can leave you out on a limb and then it's institutional damage limitation. Good heads and senior management and supportive colleagues with a culture of learning and focused learning always wins through. League tables are a blind.

Cain,

I am quoting data and have a quarter century's experience in the sector and OTHER sectors by which to compare. Obviously you just like to armchair pontificate without any real experience - dismiss as much data as you want in favour of half-baked ideas and we'll all be better off. It might work for being a consultant in the enterprise where B@£$%^& works wonders but it doesn't cut the mustard in schools. Perhaps you should read some papers by the Institutre of Education for a change about REAL people in REAL classrooms. Don't think difficult ideas haven't be tried - they have. And there is no de facto norm of what constitutes a "good teacher" it is entirely dependent on factors outsdie of the classroom as I have pointed out and Michael Gove and competition or league tables won't change it - they already haven't in other areas as I have already pointed out in other countries' systems but a dogged self-belief in anecdotal ideas is always best isn't it ;)?

tourist - don't get me wrong - I completely agree with you. I was one of the colleagues asked to help one of these failing teachers, and it was incredibly infuriating that she avoided me, "missed" meetings, "didn't see" emails and so on. I don't actually have any time for this kind of teacher either - everyone suffers from their lack of ability to take help where it is offered. The issue I was making about self-esteem was different - that was to do with the point about all teachers having "weekly observations" - I wanted to make the point that if you don't trust a professional to act as a professional, then the effects can be catastrophic. How many doctors or lawyers would accept "weekly observations"? My DH works for a very high-performing private business. He has bi-annual appraisals.

Cain - it would be helpful if you knew what you were talking about. Of course parents can have opinions, but you have made a number of erroneous assertions. For example, that school somehow club together to "move" failing teachers from one place to another. Seriously? Why would a head teacher agree to take on a teacher who has been deemed unsatisfactory rather than advertise a vacant post?

By all means have opinions, but try to get your facts right before presenting your views as "how it's done"

touristfromthefutureMon 30-May-11 19:53:47

Cain,

I am quoting data and have a quarter century's experience in the sector and OTHER sectors by which to compare. Obviously you just like to armchair pontificate without any real experience - dismiss as much data as you want in favour of half-baked ideas and we'll all be better off. It might work for being a consultant in the enterprise where B@£$%^& works wonders but it doesn't cut the mustard in schools. Perhaps you should read some papers by the Institutre of Education for a change about REAL people in REAL classrooms. Don't think difficult ideas haven't be tried - they have. And there is no de facto norm of what constitutes a "good teacher" it is entirely dependent on factors outsdie of the classroom as I have pointed out and Michael Gove and competition or league tables won't change it - they already haven't in other areas as I have already pointed out in other countries' systems but a dogged self-belief in anecdotal ideas is always best isn't it ;)?

Ah there it is again, dismissed as anecdotal...I'm still not inclined, despite your obvious charm, to take your opinion as gospel. But thank you for the reading tip.

EvilTwins, as I explained, I got that impression from teachers and one would think they knew what they were talking about. Apparently not. I stand corrected.

Perhaps they were talking about managed moves with difficult students and you misunderstood.

EvilTwins - yes the cattle trucks are there for all the poor performers obviously :) - wonderful how hearsay becomes fact?

I think that we probably all agree that positive ongoing mentoring is useful but who gets the non-contact time to teach each others' classes to do this practically?

In the very best schools (not always the ones top of the league tables) this happens and is incredibly positive and gives immense self-esteem. Measurement against each other just serves to make people teach to the league tables or measurement parameters rather than get on with quality teaching - self-assessed and focused on the needs of the students.

Things seem so simple from the other side of the fence. If schools were more transparent about their working methods and co-opted parents into the learning process and opened their doors more we'd have less ignorance all around. People can cross fertilise and learn from best practice in ANY field.

EvilTwinsMon 30-May-11 20:02:45

Perhaps they were talking about managed moves with difficult students and you misunderstood.

No, it was definitely about poor teachers. I shall not believe everything I read from teachers in future.