Michael Gove is comprehensively destroying the teaching unions

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Just look at the wailing and gnashing of teeth over at the Guardian!
www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/may/23/gove-struggling-schools-education-policy

Crap schools should buck up or close. Good ones should expand. Headteachers should sack crap teachers, and give raises/bonuses/promotions to good ones, irrespective of seniority. It's that simple.

I wonder how many Guardian writers send their children to bog-standard comprehensives? They regularly censor any comment which lists the former schools of their most prominent commentators, which show how pretty much all of them have been privately educated themselves.

Anyway, the effective loss of of national bargaining for the teaching unions is a tremendous achievement. Congratulations, Mr Gove!

Oh dear I hope your not a evil twin I would hate to think their are two people like you walking the earth.

And to be quite Frank I don't require your respect and as for ignorant

Your the one who seems to be looking forward to the destruction on the unions like some kind of poor mans maggie thatcher yuck

Raven ak my cousin has a degree in marketing she is now a primary school teacher how is that a relevant qualification

I would much prefer if she had some sort of child development qualification then go on to do the pgce.

And as for quickly moving on their are those who do but those who cling on for dear life they need to be delt with swiftly

I'm not sure how much you know about the content & rigour of qualifications in either marketing or child development, tbh...& I certainly don't. It's a relevant qualification if it enabled your cousin to successfully pass a primary PGCE.

This 'clinging on for dear life' - it's vanishingly rare, tbh. Most teachers these days are employed on a fixed term contract, at least initially. If they're useless, it isn't renewed.

Sometimes, though, you get a situation where the barely adequate teacher on a rolling temp contract is at least a consistent presence - the job is advertised every term & no-one better presents themselves.

I can think of at least one position in the (outstanding) secondary where I teach where this is the case.

Oddly enough, if Gove vaporised my nice-but-ineffectual colleague tomorrow, there wouldn't be a queue of fantastic potential replacements.

& frankly, if I thought this government were likely to continue their damage into a second term, I'd be strongly advising any bright, hardworking potential recruit to teaching to emigrate instead...

Maypole1 - "Your the one who seems to be looking forward to the destruction on the unions like some kind of poor mans maggie thatcher yuck"

Er... no. I think you have me confused with someone else. I have never even hinted that I want the teaching unions to face destruction. In fact, I am a big supporter of teaching unions, for a whole host of reasons. Thatcher didn't manage to get rid of them, and neither will Gove.

As for your argument about degrees and qualifications, I think you need to look into it a bit more before you start shouting the odds about it. I teach English and Performing Arts. I have a degree in English and Theatre Studies and a PGCE. I expect you approve of that. My Dsis has a degree in International Business with German. She has recently retrained as a primary school teacher, and you know what? She's bloody good at it.

If I'd done a degree in child development, how would I teach Shakespeare? If my Dsis has a degree in child development, how would that enable her to access all areas of the National Curriculum any better than her degree in Business?

Oh, and did you know (referring to your earlier argument) that you can be a lawyer without a law degree?

A good article by a left-winger on the success of the academy programme.

www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/john-rentoul/john-rentoul-children-reap-fruit-of-labours-revolution-2290328.html

He gives Blair too much credit though. Blair merely mildly experimented in a tiny way with choice - his backward, stupid, success-hating MPs couldn't stand the idea of giving schools freedom - of acknowledging the blindingly obvious - that some schools are just better than others.

It took Michael Gove to break through the critical mass threshold, neuter the teaching unions for the foreseeable future with a thousand new academies, and embed choice forever into our school system.

evil twin with people like you in teaching i hope to god teachers with your attatuide can get the heave hoe sooner than later it worries me dearly to think their are people like you shaping young minds i may not be able to spell but then that's why i am not a teacher

you are vile and are in charge of young minds sad sad sad

Well done, Maypole. You've run out of things to say so you've gone for the ultimate mumsnet cliche - tell a teacher they must be crap at their job, as they have failed to agree with everything you say.

Well lucky for me it's OFSTED and my headteacher deciding if I'm any good at my job. God help us if it was you making those decisions.

Oh, and perhaps you could point me to whichever of my posts has led you to believe that I shouldn't be allowed to "shape young minds". Just interested really.

In general, I do get fed up with the sort of teacher who thinks that PGCEs are a meaningful qualification, or who insists that ICT is of equal worth as an A-Level to Latin or Further Maths.

I can't wait for the new academies to start recruiting ex-troops, ex-businesspeople, ex-farmers, and other people with real world experience rather than Guardian reading drab non-entities. Young minds are impressionable, and they should be exposed to teachers with a range of political views, rather than just union fodder who will tell them that mediocrity suffices, and that everyone is equal.

"I do get fed up with the sort of teacher who thinks that PGCEs are a meaningful qualification" - that would be all teacher then. Except some of those in the independent sector who actually aren't qualified as teachers.

LFN - you're talking crap. Again. Those ex-troops, ex-businesspeople and ex-farmers will still need a teaching qualification. What on earth makes you think that they are currently better qualified to do the job that teachers do than teachers are?

You're making me very angry. You are ignorant and have no clue about education at all. That much is very very clear.

Given that you are defending the teaching unions, being anti-academy, and anti-choice - it would be surprising if I did not annoy you. I doubt if Gove is hugely bothered about the squawks emanating so predicatably from vested interests - they will always want to defend the status quo.

I doubt you're going to vote Tory any time soon, so your view isn't going to be of much importance to him. The parents who so desperately want to send their children to good schools, however, and want the choice of which school to send them - they will recognise the difference - and if they have any sense, they will take the education revolution into account when they vote.

In general, Gove doesn't seem to believe much in the worth of PCGEs either. Last year, at the Tory party conference, he outlined plans to effectively get rid of them, replacing them with classroom-only training.

uk.reuters.com/article/2010/11/24/uk-britain-education-idUKTRE6AN4S020101124

Oh yes, I remember that. He's done bugger all to begin to implement it though. Out of interest, why do you think PGCEs are worthless? Do you even know what a PGCE course involves? Why do you think classroom-based training (as you refer to it) will be better? And why do you think ex-business people/farmers will make better teachers than current teachers? And is it just teachers who have always been teachers that you think are crap? Plenty of my colleagues did something else as a job at some point, so are, in fact ALREADY ex-business people/accountants/engineers etc.

Well, he has plenty on his plate - but his thinking is clear, and I like it!

Yes, I know what PCGEs involve. Plenty of ivory tower gobbledegook, psychobabble and handwringing on the latest fashionable methodology, largely based on the research of academics at third-rate universities who have pre-judged their results, and are often in any case too inept to undertake genuinely interesting studies. I know because I have sat alongside such "education research" academics, and had the misfortune of listening to their blather for hours on end.

I think that teachers are vital role models - and heaven help our children if all they get from their teachers are Dave and Davina Spart types who denounce Oxbridge as elitist, who despise capitalism, who provide excuse after excuse for mediocrity, and who hate the idea of having to compete against other teachers and schools. Most of them are probably still sad that the West won the Cold War.

The entire public sector - but especially education - needs a thorough dose of private sector thinking injected into it. Gove is doing exactly what the doctor ordered!

Anyway, I must take my leave for now - but look forward to resuming my refutation of your entire ideology soon!

Quotes from the ofsted report into school based teacher training (GTP)
DRB stands for Designated Recommending Bodies who are the managers for the various GTP providers.

"In 19 of the DRBs, there were significant weaknesses in identifying and meeting individual training needs and providing a suitable range of teaching experiences. The potential of the second school experience as an integral part of the training was often not fully exploited. "

"Around a third of the DRBs inspected has had significant weaknesses in subject-specific training for secondary trainees. This contrasts with PCGE provision where trainees are usually given a good grounding in how to teach their specialist subject."

a more recent report also showed that the PGCE route was often better at training teachers than the GTP route.

LFN, I take it you're not a teacher then? Have you ever been one?

I'd find your adoration of Michael Gove a bit creepy if I really thought you believed in everything you've said on here. But I know provocation when I see it

What LFN says is ignorant and insulting - I can't help rising to the bait. I feel so sorry for teachers - who deserve medals imo - when they have to put up with such ill-informed, unbalanced views.

What's the point of being so nasty? Don't we all have a vested interest in boosting the confidence of teachers and showing how much we appreciate them and their hard work?

LFN - you haven't answered any of my questions. Far from refuting anyone's ideology, you're completely unable to explain or justify your own. You lose.

EvilTwins On the contrary - I have answered your questions - it's just that you disagree with the answers. In any case, you can do precious little about it - a thousand academies are blooming, thanks to Gove; choice is here, and here to stay - and even ex-Labour politicians are opening free schools. You and your ilk have lost the battle over the structure of education in this country for at least a generation, and frankly, I couldn't be more thrilled.

No longer will the NUT and NASUWT be able to say to parents "Get back in line":

Donki That's what you get if you only have mediocre teachers, who insist on everything being prescriptive. I can imagine very different results if limited to those graduates in the Teach First programme, for example.

LFN most disputes take place in individual schools not nationwide and if the teachers go on strike in a school that school will cease to function, you may not like this but it is how it works, it does not matter what type of school it is.

Also bear in mind that the school management must recognise the union if the staff members vote for it. You seem to think that Head teachers will end up as dictators running "their" schools as they see fit, this will not happen.

Lastly if national bargaining ceases then there will be far more disputes at individual schools.

LFN - you failed to answer any of the following:

1. Why do you think classroom-based training (as you refer to it) will be better?
2. And why do you think ex-business people/farmers will make better teachers than current teachers?
3. And is it just teachers who have always been teachers that you think are crap? Plenty of my colleagues did something else as a job at some point, so are, in fact ALREADY ex-business people/accountants/engineers etc.

And you waved the PGCE question away without actually answering it - just with some random twaddle about academics being dull.

Me and "my ilk"?

I wouldn't count on it, newwave - if the teachers get too bolshy then eventually, parents will exercise their newfound power of choice, and send their DC to a better, less unionised school - or if it gets really bad, set up their own.

Too bad for the unions. Just like the Kinks said, they want us to get back, get back, get right back in line.

Too bad we won't have to tolerate their little tantrums any more.

Just wondering - if you asked a random parent of a child in a random school, do you honestly think they would a) know and b) care about how "unionised" their child's school is? And given that even academies are still subject to LA admissions procedure, how far do you think a parent would get with appealing a school placement on the grounds that the school is "too unionised".

LFN, you're clearly on a wind up here. Your views don't just grate with me, they are very obviously founded in nothing other than your own wild imagination. Why is it that everyone thinks they know how a school is/should be run, just because they went to school themselves and possibly have children in schools.

Hmm. While education has such a low priority in the country, there will always be a problem. Teachers should be selected based on desire to teach and the standard of their education. The brightest and best should be attracted to teaching. If it remains true that education is not an attractive career for the motivated, well educated and bright, then nothing will improve. Pay peanuts, get monkeys.

EvilTwins

Let me spell my responses out. You will disagree with them, no doubt, but anyway.

1. If PCGEs are full of worthless academic nonsense (as I described earlier), then they are wastes of time. They produce drone-like facsimilies of mediocrity, rather than those who inspire and flourish. I don't think that there is any substitute for putting someone who wants to be a teacher in a class, and letting them get on with it. The PCGEs are actively damaging, because they are full of theoretical twaddle.

1. I think in general, people who believe the Guardian is their Bible (such as the majority of PCGE-wielding nonentities), with Polly Toynbee and Seamus Milne the prophets, are incredibly boring and dull. They are so right-on and anti-aspirational that they couldn't ever hope to captivate the imagination of a young mind. People who have had more variety in their life, and who have had to cope in the real world, would be far better role models.

1. I applaud this diversity of backgrounds, if true, but it seems rather abnormal, in my experience.

I think any parent would realise a school is in thrall to the unions when teachers decide to go on strike, ignoring their duty towards their pupils. You are right that it won't be an issue until such a point - but if the consequences of striking are that the teachers will be out of a job in 2 years time, when dozens of parents have exercised their choice and moved on, then maybe even the PGCE ones will be smart enough to realise the folly.