Them and us - why posh Tories who claim to care about social mobility haven't got a clue

[breadandbutterfly]

...and are patronising bastards to boot.

See:

www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/apr/09/social-mobility-suzanne-moore

Esp enjoy the comment at 9 April 2011 9:32AM -

"The Camerons know how to 'work' their connections, too. David Cameron got his first job as a researcher for Tim Rathbone, his godfather and Conservative MP for Lewes.

Three months later he went to Hong Kong to work at the conglomerate Jardine Matheson - Daddy was stockbroker to the chairman, providing a fast-track into the business world.

When the young Cameron was due to attend a job interview at Conservative Central Office, a phone call was received from Buckingham Palace. "I understand you are to see David Cameron," said the caller. "I am ringing to tell you that you are about to meet a truly remarkable young man."

It has been speculated that the mystery call was from Captain Sir Alastair Aird, Equerry to the Queen Mother and husband of Cameron's godmother. The Airds vigorously denied it. Others have suggested the caller might have been Sir Brian McGrath, a family friend who was private secretary to Prince Philip. But he, too, though named as a referee for the job, denies it firmly".

You couldn't make it up could you? They're all in it together.
"

Do you think all the Daily Mail reading parents of the children you teach are in comic mode intellectually? Do you tell their children that their parents are not decent or clever? You must think you are very clever indeed.

smallwhitecat you're quite right, I work in education and believe passionately that students from all backgrounds should achieve to the best of their ability. And when children I have taught have achieved A* grades, I've been all the more delighted and proud of them because they have achieved against all the odds, unlike those who get them because their parents have paid through the nose to buy advantage.

Do you work in education smallwhitecat?

swc. Dont be daft.

A school that caters for the needs of such as your child is a charity.

A school that caters for the richest children IS NOT a charity, my God how can you defend a school that has members of the aristocracy and the royal family as pupils being a so called charity.

Charity:

1. Provision of help or relief to the poor; almsgiving.
2. Something given to help the needy; alms.
3. An institution, organization, or fund established to help the needy.

Claig you're very prickly aren't you? It's quite simple, if you don't want to be accused of intellectual inferiority and/or so right wing you may begin to foam at the mouth then don't quote from the Daily Mail. No need to get all defensive. As a matter of fact, my parents read the Mail and I happily tell them that it's a comic for people who need big pictures with their 'news'. They take it in better spirits than you though.

yeah, your right SWC, Im stupid.

Just not quite stupid enough to be pulled into your emotional blackmail tactic of winning an argument.

Excuse me but what is 'me and my sort' swc ? Do you mean 'teachers' as a whole? Women? Fortysomethings? People who don't read The Daily Mail? Redheads?

swc, "defined by law" yes an anachronistic law that wont be repealed as it suits those with money, influence and power.

The definitions of charity are a dictionaries not mine although they are correct

please, please tell me how Eton qualifies to be a charity, not because the law says so, the law can be an ass, but from a position of logic.

I'm not prickly about it at all. I know it's a great paper and the more you attack it, the more it proves my point. However, you are implying that I am thick and that anyone who quotes from the Daily Mail is also thick. It is a way to dismiss the opinions of other people and to close down debate. I know you're cleverer than me, but if you are as decent as you pretend, then it is unkind to point it out.

wook are you a redhead?? If so my support for your argument has grown even more!!!

Yes SWC, my level. now, would that be my inferior genetic level, due to the fact im not a middle class tory voter?

Because after all, if you cant buy advantage it must be genetics. So mine are clearly flawed, hence why I do not send my child to private school. Boo Hoo.

swc.

Please tell me why you are so dispariging of state education.

My oldest son has a 2-1 in maths and economics from a good uni

My youngest is at Warwick Uni doing Eng Lit

Both went to state school and got good support throughoutm my position is that I want the same for all

claig,Daily hate Mail readers may not be dumb but they are swivel eyed and narrow minded :o

Meh, the coalition will collapse, they always do

Are you sure you are not mistaking the Mail for the Guardian?
Suzanne Moore writes for the Mail. Is she also swivel-eyed?

Going back to the OP, people get jobs because "they know someone" at all levels, it is not just reserved for posh people. I got DH a job once, in the days before he was DH. They call it networking these days, but it used to be your dad, or your uncle knew someone who needed someone etc.....and people get work all the time on the recommendations of others. It is just life.

Re. Social mobility, I think a return to Grammar schools and proper streaming in schools would help. Not every child should go to University. It should be an elite of the academic performers. Who decided that you were a failure not to get a degree as opposed to doing a vocational course or apprenticeship?

All these A star A'levels and crappy degrees do no one any favours. They don't even get you a job these days. We need to go back a lot more to day release and work based training. That gives kids more chance to shine at what they are good at.

I find it quite offensive that people will judge me based on my schooling. I went to public school, I'm studying a good degree at a good university, and I have absolutely no idea what I want to do with my life. I fully appreciate I am lucky because if push comes to shove I can move back home until I find a job, and many people can't, but it is also a disadvantage. I look at a job I want to apply for, there is a director who is an old boy of my school. I think of a different field, family friends offer me work experience.

I haven't taken any offer of help I have been given, because I want to avoid comments like some of these from people who assume that the only reason I achieve anything is because I have been lucky. I accept I have been lucky and I am grateful, but that doesn't mean I shout about it, and it doesn't mean I am inbred and an idiot.

Anyone at either end of the spectrum feels like they are being prejudiced against, and anyone in the middle feels like they have been ignored. Nobody can win at the moment. I'm 21, and I feel like I'm suffering from the decisions made by earlier generations.

My sister's colleague summed it up: "it's like we've been having a party for the last 20 years. I'm sorry, you missed it".

The situation is rubbish. Some people are luckier than others, but nobody has everything. Maybe Cameron would have made PM without that phone call (if it really happened) but he will now spend his whole life wondering if he only got there because of who he knew. I think it's very unfair to assume he isn't bothered by that.

Plenty of countries have no private education provision (Finland for example) and are better for it.

If the rich and affluent had to use state schools then their influence would help to improve all schools, the "class" divide is one of the things holding back our society along the retention of the royal family and aristocracy.

Suzanne Moore writes for the Mail.

Know thine enemy.

woah double degree

Just to be clear, I am not judging you at all. You did not choose the school you attended. You clearly talk alot of sense.

I only judge the parents who send their children to these schools, and then use bigoted rubbish to justify it.

www.suttontrust.com/research/summary-recent-changes-in-intergenerational-mobility/

This contains the graph I was looking for- showing that early ability/promise is not translated/ less likely to be translated for poorer kids, whilst posh rich twats less intelligent but wealthier students overtake- and shows how early on this happens so that the gap just continues to widen as those students go through th eearly years of school.

claig apologies- really did not mean to offend (unlike the editor of the Daily Mail) DM/comic is a running joke with my mum, who often quotes from it very earnestly as in 'But did you know that these immigrants eat baby soup darling?' which makes us fall around laughing. She tends to take it in good humour though, (and we do all enjoy YOU magazine )

newwave thats is exactly the point I have made in this debate in sociology before.

If they were abolished, the outrage of such people when faced with sending their "gifted children" to lesser schools, combined with their influence, would FORCE the improvement of all state ed.

No politician has the balls to do it though, mummy and daddy would be so annoyed