Them and us - why posh Tories who claim to care about social mobility haven't got a clue

[breadandbutterfly]

...and are patronising bastards to boot.

See:

www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/apr/09/social-mobility-suzanne-moore

Esp enjoy the comment at 9 April 2011 9:32AM -

"The Camerons know how to 'work' their connections, too. David Cameron got his first job as a researcher for Tim Rathbone, his godfather and Conservative MP for Lewes.

Three months later he went to Hong Kong to work at the conglomerate Jardine Matheson - Daddy was stockbroker to the chairman, providing a fast-track into the business world.

When the young Cameron was due to attend a job interview at Conservative Central Office, a phone call was received from Buckingham Palace. "I understand you are to see David Cameron," said the caller. "I am ringing to tell you that you are about to meet a truly remarkable young man."

It has been speculated that the mystery call was from Captain Sir Alastair Aird, Equerry to the Queen Mother and husband of Cameron's godmother. The Airds vigorously denied it. Others have suggested the caller might have been Sir Brian McGrath, a family friend who was private secretary to Prince Philip. But he, too, though named as a referee for the job, denies it firmly".

You couldn't make it up could you? They're all in it together.
"

I think the cleverest in the land should go to university. I'm not a fan of bigwigs in ivory towers playing at social engineering with people's lives.

'8% of pupils are educated at private schools so no more than 8% should be at the top universities otherwise it is just bought privilege'

Instead of bleating about what public schools are doing wrong, it might make sense to look at what they are doing right, hence people making huge sacrifices to send thier kids to them.

Moondog

Instead of bleating about what public schools are doing wrong, it might make sense to look at what they are doing right, hence people making huge sacrifices to send their kids to them.

See below

When all schools have the same facilities and pupil to teacher ratios and the same cramming to get into the best universities as the top private schools then it will be an even playing field

Or is it that only the well off are entitled to the things described above. As for huge sacrifices I am sure those on minimum wage could not afford to send their kids to a private school no matter how hard they tried.

Claig

I think the cleverest in the land should go to university. I'm not a fan of bigwigs in ivory towers playing at social engineering with people's lives.

If their was anything near a level playing field in education then I would agree however there is not. Would the "cleverest" be the same people if the playing filed was level, I think not.

Small class sizes, cramming for entrance exams etc gives an unfair advantage to the well off and dont forget the old school tie as well.

You two just want to entrench privilege.

Class:student ratio has very little to do with academic success.
But you are too busy swirling your cloak to know that.

Classic left wing nonsense.
Throw money-the taxpayers money- at everything (see Blair & Brown's record on spending on schools)..
Who cares if things are still as shit as ever? At least we're all like heeeeeeey, equal and right on man.

Teacher/Pupil I mean.

moondog - you are very wrong. Give a teacher any child one-one and they can get an A* in any GCSE and most A levels. Smaller classes makes more difference than anything else in terms of results.

Schools have improved enormously under the last government,

Evidence please.
Throw some stats. at me and i'll throw some right back atcha/.

no, those on minimum wage can't afford private school (without bursaries) - since a Labour government abolished the assisted places scheme, one of the Labour Party's most revolting acts in a long and disgusting history of malice against bright kids from poor backgrounds.

How can all the kids from state schools go to fee paying public schools their will not be enough places or are you saying public schools are only for:

Anyone now matter how "clever" they are if they can pay.

The "brightest" from state schools.

The remainder can go to schools with poorer facilities and larger class sizes.

Class:student ratio has very little to do with academic success

Utter bullshit, anyway if that was true why do many private schools make a virtue out of the small class sizes.

I'm not following your thinking Newave.
You are vocal in your support of left wing politics and yet are saying that state schools are shite.

I thoguht your mates sorted all of this stuff out over the last few years?

About 75% of 11-16 year olds are in comprehensive schools and yet less than 25% of Oxbridge pupils are comprehensive school educated. Less than 15% of pupils are educated in a grammar/sec modern system and yet they account for roughly 25% of pupils at Oxbridge. The less than 10% of privately pupils account for the rest........!

Most of the current generation of politicians are either from wealthy or well connected families (Milliband and Balls had high profile socialist academics as fathers) and attended Oxbridge.

As the American's say - you do the math....!

Yes, they're doing something right.
Is that hard to understand? .
The politics of spite and envy help noone.

Milliband, Balls, Brown et al. weren;'t brought up in grim back to backs attending local sink schools.

The odious Diane Abbot sent her son to a private school, claiming (on MN) that 'she had to make a choice that was about him for once and not me'.

She revelled in all that baptism in the House of Commons chapel stuff too. No whizzing down to her local 'community centre' for a knees up with the proletariat. Oh no no no!

All the while bleating about how difficult her life was as a single parent.

'moondog - you are very wrong. Give a teacher any child one-one and they can get an A* in any GCSE and most A levels.'

I bet that's not true for, say, Physics A level or GCSE Latin. Or Art and Music, for that matter.

So if private education does not buy advantage......what the fuck are you making "sacrifices" for???

Why pay for something you can get for free.....please explain.

Paul and newwave are right, these kids are bought advantage and they are taught to pass exams not to be the brightest or most intelligent.

Lastly please dont assume that every poster against this stuff votes Labour and is up Blair and Browns ass. Quoting mistakes from a Labour government does not in any way win your argument.

I think this present bunch of Tories have no interest in social mobility whatsoever. And the Lib Dems claim to be interested but don't understand it at all, otherwise wouldn't have allowed tuition fees at £9,000 per year. They just muddy the water with their completely pointless early redemption charges and other crappy modifications..

At the risk of sounding like Julie Burchill, Thatcher did understand social mobility and aspiration in that she wasn't from that Eton elite (still did a lot of damage though).

The really interesting thing is that the Tories didn't win an outright majority last year and it will be a long time before that happens. If Norman Tebbit is now resorting to letters to the Daily Mirror to express doubts over Tory policy it doesn't look good for unity in that party. I think a lot of the older traditional Tory voters are scared by the implications of Cameron's policies for their student grandchildren, local hospitals and schools. Not that he is taking responsibility for a lot of those policies, however.

Muminlondon - if the Coalition don't care about social mobility - why are they always banging on about it? If nothing else - they are making their core voters nervous.

And nuilus - "Why pay for something you can get for free.....". I suspect many parents are paying for a somewhat selective, traditional education with minimal distraction from unmotivated kids.

My children are at private school and if it DOESN'T buy them advantage I'll be bloody fuming, of course that's the whole point, just as a Volvo would buy me safety, a Britax car seat is better than another brand or private health insurance buys me a better level of care.
Say whatever you like about me (and I'm sure some do) but I'm honest, unlike the champagne socialists and living where I do I can testify there are many on local councils etc.

OP what did the last government do about social mobility?
introduction of fees, pulling up the rope after both Bliars benefited from state sponsored education
it should be an opportunity for the brightest and best of our land to the benefit of all .. an equality of opportunity...yeah, dream on..that is not on offer by anyone
It is what would make sense for the country but the present system wont change as the very people in power and for whom we vote for operate well within this very system..

dont beleive this present coalition shambles, the affront of the Lib dems after the student debacle and the Labour administration was a complete let down on almost every level and that is putting it mildly

god i would love if the private school parents could get a tax relief that they could claim if they just shut the fuck up about how shite state schools are

money doesn't buy clever or 'bright' children - private education just focuses on what it takes to pass exams

Moondog

I'm not following your thinking Newave.
You are vocal in your support of left wing politics and yet are saying that state schools are shite.

Ok, this is the easy version:

Some state schools are crap and I have never said otherwise.

The very best state schools do not spend as much per pupil as lets say, Eton or Harrow but do very well, these schools however tend to be in well off parts of the country

Lets spend as much per pupil in all underpreforming state schools as is spent per pupil at Eton and Harrow, schools such as those in run down inner city areas.

If money does not buy advantage in education why do public schools do better and why would anybody pay if it makes no difference.

BTW, whilst I am "left wing" I have only ever once voted Labour (1997) and have always voted LD (you bloody quisling Clegg

mama, At last an honest voice from the right, you have my respect for that.

CAN ANYBODY PLEASE TELL ME HOW ETON AND THE LIKE ARE FUCKING CHARITIES

public schools are all about contacts

i bet lesser independent schools are like getting your child b list contacts