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Politics

All-round Budget thread

433 replies

longfingernails · 23/03/2011 10:25

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OP posts:
wubblybubbly · 25/03/2011 12:58

Not at all Rhian. I'm with you all the way.

NigellaPawson · 25/03/2011 13:00

Like I say Wubbly, are you happy to have all your taxes raised to pay for it?

NigellaPawson · 25/03/2011 13:01

Because no one seems to be listening. There is no money. We are horrifyingly broke to the extent that we will not be bailed out by the IMF if we go cap in hand to them. We cannot afford to continue as we are without either massive tax hikes across the board , cuts or both.

wubblybubbly · 25/03/2011 13:05

I think Nigella you may have hit on something there.

Why waste all those millions of NHS funds training up psychologists and psychiatrists, when you can diagnose and prescribe from your armchair?

I'll bet under Dave's Big Society, you'd even do it for free?

wubblybubbly · 25/03/2011 13:09

There is no money?

What about those bombs we've just sent over to Libya? Did Dave and his pals just have a quick whip round?

What about the billions they're earmarking to privatise the NHS?

What about the massive bundle they've put aside to fund 'free schools', so that middle class parents can make sure their precious tots don't have to mix with the scum from the local council estate?

It's a smokescreen love. The money isn't limitless, but the piggy bank isn't entirely empty. It just depends on how you want to spend it.

cakeretention · 25/03/2011 13:16

"Am I alone in thinking that I would, a million times over, rather be in a society that paid a few people who were not entitled, than risked leaving innocent people with no way of surviving?"

Fine if you've got a very large pot of money or are happy to place the burden on an ever decreasing number of people who pay real net taxes. But we haven't/can't, and every fraudulent or even "doubtful" claimant takes away from somebody who might need the money far far more than them.

My Aunt has cerebral palsy caused by a hospital mistake when she was born in the 1940s. She can't walk unaided, use her hands, talk properly, and is doubly incontinent. She gets a pittance from the state. She's never been able to walk in the park, paddle on the beach, have sex, wipe her bottom, or do a million and one other things that we take for granted, and can do without thinking about it even if we are depressed or have a bad back.

Whilst there are many many people with severe and debilitating mental illness, who fully deserve support just as much as those with physical disabilities, there is also a frightening culture or entitlement to disability-related benefits that is almost impossible to challenge, and many many people that I've met in my daily life that I'd like to kick on my Aunt's behalf. It is far too easy to make a technically non-fraudulent, but still dubious claim, and the government is doing exactly the right thing by tightening up.

Strix · 25/03/2011 13:17

I for one am not happy to pay another penny in tax. In fact, I'm still rather peeved about the loss of child benefit. So much so, that Ihave just bent over backwards to organise a childcare system of an au pair and a childminder so I can be sure never to offer the coffers another penny of nanny tax.

Strix · 25/03/2011 13:19

Or is it called child taxt credit? I can't remember. I mean the one that everyone (used to) get(s).

Xenia · 25/03/2011 13:23

Okay, third time lucky - no DL, not incapacity B but ESA... that's the one.

Anyway as said above whether fraudulent or otherwise we cannot afford to pay what we have been paying even if we can afford the army and state schools and various other things. We still spend a huge amount on just about everything and the cuts may need to be deeper in more areas.

Xenia · 25/03/2011 13:24

Yes child tax credit - I have never got it as I think if you earn over £60k you never got it at all but most people got it.

Strix · 25/03/2011 13:26

I think everyone gets it. Even if you own an island. Smile

Strix · 25/03/2011 13:29

Think I was talking about Child Benefit, actually.

NigellaPawson · 25/03/2011 13:29

cakeretention - I think your post hits every nail on the head.

Wubbly can you please show me your evidence that the NHS is about to be privatised, please?

wubblybubbly · 25/03/2011 13:34

Nigella, have recently returned from an alien abduction or something? There's been a fair bit about it in the news that's all.

Anyway, I'm off for a nap. That cancer doesn't half wear you out. I'm sure you'll find exactly what you're looking for on google.

happiestblonde · 25/03/2011 14:10

The NHS is not about to be privatised.

happiestblonde · 25/03/2011 14:13

More's the pity

Rhian82 · 25/03/2011 14:36

Yes, it would be much better if we just left poor people to get ill and die. How civilised.

wubblybubbly · 25/03/2011 14:47

Letter to Lansley from the BMA

happiestblonde · 25/03/2011 14:47

Privatising wouldn't mean it disappearing but it would mean efficiency and revolutionising an out of date and wildly expensive system, which must be good for patients.

happiestblonde · 25/03/2011 14:48

BMA always oppose change, this has been discussed already.

wubblybubbly · 25/03/2011 14:51

Article in the Telegraph, reporting on the BMA response.

wubblybubbly · 25/03/2011 14:55

What utter nonsense HB. The BMA are happy to talk and agree to some of the proposals. However, they do have very deep concerns over certain aspects, it's the Government who are refusing to listen.

No one is in favour of the Bill as it stands, other than private medical providers. I wonder why.

Xenia · 25/03/2011 16:06

So the BMA decided not to oppose the bill and " The Government pointed out last night that some doctors were in favour of a significant part of the Bill, which would allow them, rather than middle managers, to purchase treatment for their patients. They would also have to consider private health care providers rather than just the nearest NHS hospital. "

(Yes it was tax credits I mentioned that I've never been eligible - nor many maternity rights actually as when I hd the first 3 babies in each case I hadn't been employed for 2 years in those days a requirement and then with the twins I was self employed - in a way the fact i didn't have most maternity rights means I earn a lot uin my 40s because there was no incentive to stop work and become a housewive or take a longish maternity leave.

Yes I have claimed child benefit. I think people can claim what they're entitled to and if the laws are wrong then the laws should be changed. I've yet to feel I'm in a position not to need it - children are expensive.

Niceguy2 · 25/03/2011 16:13

The bottom line is we only have so much money to spend. So a line must be drawn somewhere.

Now we can debate all you like about who should be entitled and who has the worst sob story about how they should get benefits but don't.

But as we've been spending a lot more money than we get over the last three decades, the time has come where we can't borrow anymore and have to start paying back....with interest. So now we have a smaller pot of money to spend so it's only natural that some people whom previously enjoyed state support are no longer entitled.

Is that right? Frankly it's rather irrelevant. It's the reality in which we live in.

NigellaPawson · 25/03/2011 16:15

In a nutshell Niceguy, in a nutshell.