All-round Budget thread

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Xenia

I wouldn't consider Labour to be 'left'. Since New Labour, they haven't really stood up for working people. Wealth inequality increased massively during the 12 years they were in power. They deregulated the financial sector which caused the banking crisis. This doesn't sound very 'left' to me.

I don't think this govt. is going to stay in power for five years. The cuts haven't even started to hit yet and people are already very, very angry. I doubt they will last one more year.

Finally, there are many models of Capitalism. The one which has dominated in the past couple of decades is Neo Liberalism. It is during this period that wealth inequality has increased to obscene levels, where workers rights have come under attack, where privitisation of public services has been so forcefully pushed, where the welfare state - indeed, the very idea of the state providing public services - has come under attack. Under this model, everything has to be shaped to create 'markets' and become 'competitive', whether this ultimately benefits society or not.

This is a sick model of Capitalism. It creates poverty, hardship, and massive wealth inequality. It leads to crises like the one we've just witnessed, and it may ultimately kill us if we don't stop it.

ttosca what would be ideal would be the sort of friendly anti-statism of Auberon Herbert. However, like imagining a non-capitalist system, this is but a pipe dream.

Some people seemed to have forgotten that they've already paid for their welfare through their National Insurance contributions. They're not receiving charity. It's part of the deal of being a citizen: pay in some money when you're in work, so you have a little security when you're out of work.

In that case I apologise but I would consider your comments of similar value, the only difference being I support a government that is tackling the fact we spend about the same per day on debt interest repayments as 3 X what we do on police

Except National insurance doesn't raise anywhere near enough money to pay for all the welfare commitments.

We get around £94 billion per year in NIC's but that doesn't even really pay for the NHS, let alone pensions and other benefits.

Send them out picking up the bloody litter, they should earn their pensions!

And the fat people Niceguy hates? Perhaps they could earn their DLA? Stick them on to exercise bikes, and get them generating power for the national grid? Two birds, one stone.

Oooh dear, this is getting ever so heated...
Thought I'd put in my penny's worth. I personally despise the Tories and all they stand for. People are very quick to forget that the last Tory Government is what put us in the ess aitch eye tee (say it) in the first place. Labour had a difficult job of cleaning up Mrs. Thatcher's mess. She is the reason that energy prices are so high, train fares are through the roof and there is not enough social housing to meet the growing demand. In case anyone doesn't remember/is pretending to not remember, she sold it all. She privatised everything she could get her hands on. Even the flamin' water that our tiny little island is surrounded by. And that is precisely what this Government is planning to do, slowly but surely, privatise everything they can. They like to call it something else, but in short, they're just selling off what little security the people of Britain have left.
I'm not sure who got on to the subject of benefits and social security, but I'm inclined to agree with whoever said that the point of it is that you pay NI to give yourself some security. DH and I have worked since we left school, until the day I went on maternity leave with DD. My parents have worked all their lives, as did their parents, during the war and nobody in my family has ever claimed a penny back. When DH was made redundant over a year ago, we used our hard earned savings to get by. But these eventually ran out and he now claims JSA. I used to feel ashamed of this, but when I think of how hard generations of my family have worked, and what they have paid into the system I realise that people who have genuinely fallen on hard times and need a little help getting back on their feet aren't the scroungers they're depicted as. The people who scrounge are those who have never worked, who come from families and communities where Social Security is seen as a lifestyle choice, rather than a safety net for times of real difficulty. Anyway, I'm getting slightly off topic, but I'm against this demolition coalition Govt as much as is humanly possible. I didn't vote for them. And by the way, the 1p off fuel...really?? You're not fooling anyone Osbourne.

I'm tempted TSC. But wait! Is this a real job, with real pay or are you just trying to fool me into earning my 'crust'?

Happiestblonde

Get rid of the already poverty level minimum wage, why not just get everybody who is not a bastard banker or rich Tory filth in a chain gang and feed them bread and water.

You make LFN seem to be an empathetic and compassionate person.

I hope your on a wind up because the idea of a person with your views makes me shudder

I won't fuck off actually secondcoming. Your faux concern and patronising lovely, lovely poor people shit makes me sick.

Nigella, concern for others is hardly patronising and only a very selfish/nasty/mean spirited person would find caring for others sickening, in fact I would describe such a person as a Tory.

BTW how do you know it is faux concern, many people try to balance compassion with self interest, except for Tories that is who seem to prefer 100% self interest.

Thatcher saved Britain.

I don't know who LFN is sorry. I don't know why bankers are singled out - the square mile contributes >10% of GDP of the whole country so I think they've at least paid back the bail out but not sure, if any other profession was vilified in such a way there would be a huge outcry - hence politics of envy.

Tories tend to be paternalistic and do care. Cameron certainly cares, despite how smug he comes across. I wouldn't consider myself a tory, i'm more libertarian.

Still can't see the craziness in expecting people on benefits to contribute to society through unpaid community work - it is paid, through the benefits... just like the public sector in that the state pays for work to be done.

Pro decent pensions and state support for illness. Not for being out of work.

Nothing to do with envy, the bankers caused a lot/most of the financial crisis and have then scuttled away from the scene of the crime and have been allowed to keep and keep on getting their ill gotten gains.

Those that caused the problems have borne none of the pain.

Envy no, justice, yes please.

Caring Tories, nope, never meet or seen one. Caring Tories is an oxymoron.

400, 000 vacancies across the country, 2.53 million (and rising due to Tory policies) do the math.

"Still can't see the craziness in expecting people on benefits to contribute to society through unpaid community work - it is paid, through the benefits... just like the public sector in that the state pays for work to be done".

If their is work to be done then advertise the jobs and pay the proper rate, dont try to get it done on the cheap simple

BTW do you know what the benefit is for a 21 year old living at home on the dole is £67 how many hours work do you want for that.

If capitalism has worked so well why does the state need to bail out banks?

There's no such thing as a perfect market, the state has a role and the sooner people realised that the better. A role alongside the public sector.

Now I'm STILL waiting for evidence that the private sector is better, overall. all I hear is whistling in the wind.

Yes, indeed the Tories have been very good for Britain. I am old enough to remember the problems of the 70s, the country brought to its knees by strikes, 20/28/ 22% inflation 3 years in a row, 3 day week, power turned off, top rate tax 99% and plenty of people on 66%. We managed to turn things round.

The idea that NI pays for benefits is not so. Also plenty of people are on benefits for life (not all but vast numbers) and have never paid a penny in.

We are all born very different from each other and as long as the poor are fed and housed in a way which encourages them to help themselves then it does not matter if some people have more than others. You would never eradicate differences in income - even those countries which tried communism failed at doing that.

It doesn't mtter if you're left or right, the coffers are bare and Labour would have had a pretty similar budget.

This Government is very likely to last the full 5 year term and I hope win (or better the Tories win) another. Ten more years would be pretty good.

Yes, £67 21 year old living at home. Plenty of younger workers have always had to serve their time learning a trade for very little money. You aren't much use at anything when you start. If we had some form of work fare it would make people more used to getting out of bed in time to take buses to work for an 8.30am or earlier start which many of those in work have to achieve.

However the main issue now is paying back our massive debts and trying to make the UK a country you come to not avoid. The Tories are not doing anything like as well as they might at that in part because their hands are tied because of lack of money but as things get better there will be more scope to attract business here.

Personally I think capitalism is great, it's gone wrong over the last 20 years - accelerated in the last 10, by globalisation. That is what has fucked nearly all of us over. From the person who works in Tesco who needs tax credits to pay the bills, through to me - an alleged "professional" who's seen her earning power eroded over the last decade due to outsourcing etc. 10% YoY growth is not sustainable.

Fraud is fraud and I don't think it's "OK" because it's only "small amounts".

My SIL doesn't work, gets her bills paid, has her useless piece of abusive shit live with her undeclared - every time the doorbell goes he hides in a cupboard. Yes, I'll agree it's not easy finding a job in Glasgow when you're a 20 year old girl - but it'd be a lot bloody easier if you actually went to a job interview rather than bailing out because "your hair wasn't right" that day. :(

There's too much gone wrong and it's going to be a monumental task to put it all right. If I were in the UK I'd like to hire a 16-18 year old to do childcare, I could pay them more than they'd earn working in some damned nursery where the profits are creamed off. I could probably offer an incentive such as driving lessons or live-in. But, I probably wouldn't be allowed to because said person wouldn't have the legal qualifications or some other such gubbins. :( Ironic really, when I was at sixth form college, half the girls on the NNEB (?) course had become mothers at 14/15 and knew more about childcare at 16 than I did at 35! But, I've also seen with my own peers that they don't "trust" these teenagers - is it because we've babied them too much?

And the fat people Niceguy hates? Perhaps they could earn their DLA?

I didn't say I hate fat people. I said I resented paying taxes so they can get DLA. That's because I believe that if moved more, by you know....having a job......perhaps they wouldn't be fat in the first place!

People are very quick to forget that the last Tory Government is what put us in the ess aitch eye tee (say it) in the first place.

Yeah cos the UK was paradise in 1979, there were no strikes, no problems with inflation. Our rubbish was collected promptly, electricity was 24x7 and we didn't need to go to the IMF like a 3rd world country........oh hang on......we did!

Personally I think capitalism is great,

Actually I think it's rubbish. It's extremely wasteful, it promotes a huge rich/poor divide and at its core, it's survival of the fittest which is no good if you are not 'fit'. I am genuinely fearful that thanks to the waste from capitalism that we will deplete the world's resources within a couple of generations and our grandchildren will be screwed.

BUT

It's a damn site better than any of the other alternatives offered out there. You can see how successful "fairer" alternatives were like communism, marxism, socialism. So for me, capitalism is the lesser of all the evils.

That is I think, the difference between capitalisation and globalisation. Capitalisation rewards ingenuity and hard work, globalisation rewards "rape" of resources - be they human or otherwise.

£2.50 and hour is all that is paid under the apprentice scheme. The state isn't making it up over this amount, just making sure that they go to college one day a week.

Xenia

Yes, £67 21 year old living at home. Plenty of younger workers have always had to serve their time learning a trade for very little money. You aren't much use at anything when you start. If we had some form of work fare it would make people more used to getting out of bed in time to take buses to work for an 8.30am or earlier start which many of those in work have to achieve.

No problem with that as long as they are paid at least the minimum wage, I suspect the jobs would be snapped up very quickly.

It is about time the Tories on here accepted that the minimum wage is a shit wage and it ends up with the taxpayer subsidising employers.