Posh and Posher: Why Public School Boys Run Britain

[TapselteerieO]

Did anyone see this?

I have just watched it and thought there might be a thread here about it. Sadly I am not surprised that it happens but I am still surprised by the statistics.

(Going to get dc from school so might not be on here until later.)

Jack, I would draw your attention to an earlier post by myself which notes the feeder schools for Toby Young's school. The nearest (poor area) primary school is excluded but schools in more affluent areas further away are included.

BTW did you know that money was taken from other local school budgets to pay for Toby Young's school.

Claig, your a genius, the only criteria to enter the top public schools will be the entrance exam and no amount of money will get you in if you fail the exam AND if you haven't got the money for the fee,s it's free.

When do you think they will send letters asking for all the children and parents throughout the UK who want to, to apply to take the exam.

Haven't read the whole thread, but I am starting to think a lot of the reasons are based around expectation and determination of the individual and the parents themselves.

I know that my parents generation experienced a great deal of social mobility, despite coming from poor and underprivilaged backgrounds so I think we need to stop making excuses for people NOT to do as well as they can, and start having MUCH higher expectations of people DESPITE their various backgrounds.

Three generations ago, during WW1, my Grandfather's parents were tythe workers on a farm - no money, education AND they were expected to toe the line. When G.Grandfather went to fight, the whole family was thrown out of the tythe cottage as he'd been TOLD to stay and work by the then landowner. DESPITE the various disadvantages my family - on both sides - have faced, my generation are all home owners, who are well educated and work.

Grandparents had little education and rubbish jobs, plus poor prospects. They seemed to have really high expectations of their children, including the girls. Hence IMVHO, two generations on we've gone from poor to quite well off.

So, what does hold people back?

Maybe a sense that even if they don't try life should be handed to them on a plate and the playing field should be completely fair and even...

Well, life isn't fair in any sense, nor can we engineer a society to have equal outcomes for everyone. I would love to see more women and a wider diversity of backgrounds represented in the Cabinet, but lets stop making excuses and start having high expectations of all our young people - even the ones on council estates who go to comprehensive school.

We have free healthcare, education and a wide range of support and opportunities in our society, if people are willing to work hard and take the opportunities. It's not as easy as it was 2 generations ago as there are more people and so more competition, but it can be done.

No time soon. That is what should happen. But the progressives have even infected many Tories, and Cameron et al. haven't got the courage to reintroduce grammar schools and selection. But one day it will happen. Unfortunately we will have to wait years for the legacy of the progressives to be completely discredited.

claig, you said grammar schools for ALL no selection was mentioned.

I didn't say grammar schools for all. I said more grammar schools. Entrance exams available to all who wish to take them.

I don't understand why other schools can't be modelled on our top grammar schools. I don't know enough about it. But I am sure that Gove and his advisers are doing their best to increase the standard of education at all schools.

So those who fail the exam can go to schools with less facilities and bigger class sizes, hardly seems fair and it is elitist

"But I am sure that Gove and his advisers are doing their best to increase the standard of education at all schools"

:o :o :o :o what a comedian you are

I don't think that spending money on facilities is the key to education. I don't think that computers in every classroom is a necessity. I think what counts is teachers. I don't see why grammar schools should be more expensive than existing comprehensives. I don't think grammar schools need to have smaller class sizes than existing comprehensives.

Claig: if we have the best schools in the world, why are they not overwhelmed with pupils from the richest countries in the world: the US, Germany, Japan, Norway, Sweden, Switzerland etc?

It's interesting that you identify our public schools as being favoured by the rich of China and Russia, nations in which favour and privilege is bought and sold like any other commodity.

I am sure that any politician today is working to protect their interests, so they will want to ensure the continuation of the Old Etonian/Oxbridge privileged elite, they have no interest in social mobility for anyone outside of that, irrespective of their education or abilities - if your child doesn't make it tough.

I believe in academic elitism, not elitism by dint of money.

We have top schools for gifted musicians and gifted sports people. Why can't we also have top schools for children who are gifted academically? Why should this be the only sphere where we don't provide special education? We allow people to buy a top private education, but prevent gifted state school children from playing on a level playing field.

It is due to the "fair" philosophy. But it is blatantly unfair to these gifted state school children, who are just as capable as the children with money (e.g. Tony Blair's and Diane Abbott's children).

"They don't want Rupert mixing with Jonny from the comp"

Jonny is not the perceived problem. Shannon with the pretty face is the perceived problem.

"I don't think that spending money on facilities is the key to education. I don't think that computers in every classroom is a necessity. I think what counts is teachers. I don't see why grammar schools should be more expensive than existing comprehensives. I don't think grammar schools need to have smaller class sizes than existing comprehensives."

No need for grammar schools then.

Claig: if we have the best schools in the world, why are they not overwhelmed with pupils from the richest countries in the world: the US, Germany, Japan, Norway, Sweden, Switzerland etc?

It's interesting that you identify our public schools as being favoured by the rich of China and Russia, nations in which favour and privilege is bought and sold like any other commodity.

Hoggs, BULLSEYE :o

"We allow people to buy a top private education"

Yes "we" do and it's about time it was outlawed.

hogsback, I don't know how many children from abroad apply for our top schools. But it wouldn't surprise me if diplomats' children and the children of government officials the world over apply to our top schools, just as Oxbridge attracts students form all over the world.

I mention Russian oligarchs, because for them, money is no object. They could choose anywhere in the world, and yet many of them choose our top schools. We must have something going for us.

Newwave - the West London Free school has no feeder primaries. And per child funding is the same as any other state school. As there is a baby boom effecting years 7 and below - they are not even reducing the number of pupils at local state secondaries.

"We allow people to buy a top private education"

Yes "we" do and it's about time it was outlawed.

'outlawed'?

Are you one of these liberal, tolerant progressives?

Outlaw private schools so everyone will be forced into the state system . Welcome to the USSR

Newwave - the West London Free school has no feeder primaries. And per child funding is the same as any other state school. As there is a baby boom effecting years 7 and below - they are not even reducing the number of pupils at local state secondaries.

I heard there was a representative of the school on TV explaining why the nearest school was excluded by being "on the wrong side of the railway line".

I wonder if Toby Young's kid will have to apply like anyone else to get into his dads school.

I note the school will not respect the local catchment area so as to allow the middle classes from further away to get in.

Who decides who gets in?.

Yes outlaw public schools and private medicine so that in these two vital areas money cannot buy privilege.

No jumping the queue for cancer treatment because your rich. No to a privileged education because the state school is just not good enough for rich boy Rupert.

Only an elitist, selfish snob would think otherwise.

filtering children at an eary age like 11 is just crazy. Some children are slow-burners and might mature academically in their teens. The reason nordic schools like in finland has better education is that it is long-term. Most children who start school will go onto university and they are left to develop in their own time. Britain is such a class-ridden system it is not suprising education is also a class issue. I watched the programme and I am just so happy my children will never put a foot in eaton and become mini william hagues at the age of 14 to be honest....

Claig: what do diplomats have to do with it? Diplomats aren't rich and most could not afford public school fees Diplomats' kids go to the local international schools or boarding school in their home countries, paid for by their governments. They don't go into the local school system because they change posting frequently and need continuity of curriculum.

Russian oligarchs' children go to British public schools for reasons of their own, but I suspect much of it is tied up with the idea of buying into privilege and ostentation. The Russian and Chinese new rich are desperate to be seen as equals of the old money global elites and believe that money can buy them class. It can't.

Your assertion that people the world over have heard of Eton, Harrow, Cheltenham etc is simply laughable. A German, American or Japanese is no more likely to have heard of them than you having heard of the top secondary schools in those countries.

According to their website - allocation is by proximity (straight line). And a lottery for dc's living further out.

The school manage the applications - just the same as for Academies and VA schools. I'm sure those nice people from Local Schools Network will be watching though.

I hope Toby's dc's do get in - otherwise it'll be guilt free private school for them.

newwave- Education is probably the greatest social good of all so why would we want to ban providers of it, simply because they can do it better than the state. Also we live in a liberal democracy where things are only outlawed if it is felt that they are harmful to the individual or society as a whole, private education is neither.

Previous post to Newwave re WL Free School.