Posh and Posher: Why Public School Boys Run Britain

[TapselteerieO]

Did anyone see this?

I have just watched it and thought there might be a thread here about it. Sadly I am not surprised that it happens but I am still surprised by the statistics.

(Going to get dc from school so might not be on here until later.)

I forgot to watch it, I'm not surprised as I think they get a better education. They are also encouraged to be very confident, I visited a top public school the other day, and what surprised me was the confidence of the boys. I was very impressed with the teaching/facilities. My son will certainly be sent to public school.

If he passes the entrance exam!

I remember visiting a public school as part of a careers advisory initiative. Going around the room, the 'what do you want to do when you leave school?' question was met with 'lawyer', 'doctor', 'civil engineer', 'royal navy'... not one person said 'dunno' or 'drive a van'. And the headmaster made me laugh when he said they had "boys of a wide range of abilities.... from those heading for Oxford and Cambridge, right down to those only taking one or two A levels" (Really wide then :) )

It would be lovely if we could get that same combination of ambition, achievement and confidence in all children.

It was highly depressing.

Wouldn't it be nice if the little boy from the council estate in Paisley who could name the PM and Deputy PM, could be given the same chances as no doubt Jacob Rees Mogg has received over the years?

We could, you know, pay for that kid from paisley to go to westminster... £10 each??

I can buy the fact that boys in the big public school receive the best education money can buy, and have confidence instilled in them, but to me, that doesn't explain why they are still so over-represented in the upper echelons of power. It happens in no other democracy in the world! I am absolutely astounded that there are more men in the Cabinet that went to Magdalen College, Oxford than there are women IN TOTAL!! It is absolutely outrageous. But bloody depressing that nothing seems to challenge the status quo.

Its about many things, but one fact is that at almost every level of development having less money filters you out, and having money filters you in - to give a simple example..

Kid at comprehensive:
1, Networks largely comp. kids

1. family networks not as professional or as international
2. no money for additional tutor
3. A-levels at college or school - similar networks to above
4. University also a massive financial decision leading to debts OR
5. Job to sustain - lower paid because of no degree, lack of progression.
6. Debts after/during uni necessitate part-time work - less time/energy to focus on study
7. More minor university in any case - networks are not international and wealthy - holdiday experienced are self-funded rather than invites to friends' large houses
8. Work experience has to be paid (rules out all internships = jobs in media, jobs for political parties etc)

10. First working income cannot be spent on more qualifications, as is still paying off last 11. Can't buy, borrow or rent central london property, so commute is longer/impossible therefore les time to spend on fucossing on development, jobs, networking etc. 12. more senior jobs in may fields require a masters (given for free at Oxbridge, costs circa £10K PLUS lost salary elsewhere)

the list goes on.... not to mention the genuine prejudice and stifling of ambition that happens to poorer kids everywhere - at private school 'I am going to be a top journalist' generates advice, support, internships jobs. 'I am going to be a journalist' in state school = 'yes, but could you also think of a back-up'

I remember the advice givn to me at school "go and work in an office' and that was because I could type.
My son is tutored and most in his class are, although most don't go to public schools, they try the entrance exams at top state schools.

Yes, money gives you the access to privaledge.

I'm convinced that more than education is the "sense of entitlement" many privately eduicated boys get instilled in them. They wouldn't shy out of big jobs because that's the standard they see around them. And obviously... connections help.

I think the above rationale doesn't work that well with privately educated girls because most women role models they are exposed to are SAHM, so they are likely, even if unconciously, to asume that despite being able to progress quickly in the job place, they are prepared to put the career on the side to raise the children when the time is right.

I think that some of the maelstrom's view has merit - the 'sense of entitlement' is curious - I worked for a boss who had applied at an early age for top jobs and believed entirely that he was right to do so - ten years in, he was astonishingly incompetent, yet got promoted by others of his ilk who viewed really competent people below their level as separate kinds of people more suited to implementation rather than vision etc - I have even worked for a prominent University who actually had employment policies that disadvantaged people below what they later called 'strategic' level and prevented them from getting professional development to move them upwards whilst they were simultaneously recruiting people with no experience with PhDs from top universities into senior management positions, causing all sorts of chaos as people with no experience of management, no idea of systems design or communications good practive were put in charge of whole-organisation implementation projects - this led to the central adminlaunching inititive after initiative upwards, but not communicating them downwards or putting in implementation strategies, so that adherence was effectively voluntary... and only voluntary if you had even heard about them..!

Classic examples were - new electronic processing of application, new statistivcal and reporting packages, new learning and development inititives etc etc.

Some departments were still working from paper with no plans to change when at the top ex private school kids with PhDs were telling the University Court that they had 'rolled out inititives across the institution' it was breathtaking ...!

I even went to a meeting where I was argued with when I pointed out that the initiative that was being described hadn't even been communicated to departments much less working effectively as they had described. I was told that 'yes it had' even though I was the only one for whom the inititive would have had any relevance.

after that meeting I had an e-mail saying that people 'at junior grades' weren't supposed to attend meetings 'at that level' - despite my running the admin for the biggest single department at the institution!!

Smallwhitecat: no that isn't the answer.

What really, really, really grates on me in these sorts of progs interviewing the likes of Jacob Rees Mogg is that once they start spouting Latin, it somehow appears that they are more intelligent than your average prole...

Well, it's only because they have actually been taught Latin in the first place, plenty of state school children could (and do in some cases) learn it just as adequately to give a quick quote to some journalist.

I doubt very much indeed that the likes of David Cameron and George Osborne are any brighter than some of their counterparts who attended state school.

Many bright state educated children could pass the entrance exams to top public schools were they given the opportunity to compete on a level playing field for the places.

About 15 pupils from my DCs grammar school were successful in applying to Oxford this year and I actually do know of someone reading PPE at Oxford now who went to a comprehensive school so there is some hope :)

Let's hope Gove does raise standards for the brightest in the state system so there can be some real competition soon.

clearly one of the things one should learn is how to start sentences with 'clearly' -castigat ridendo mores

(roughly translates as 'if not intelligence, wikipedia')

My privately educated ex has very much a sense of entitlement, not entitlement on the way that everything should be serve to them on a plate, but the entitlement that relates to feeling they were able to dream about what they wanted and be assured that if they worked hard they will get it. And to set high standards.

If you grow in an environment where every man you know has a high profile job, it is easy for them to assume that that is the standard they are aiming for.

On the other hand, if you grow up in an environment where everyone is doing blue collar jobs, sometimes is very difficult to separate yourself from the stereotype and aim for higher roles.

As always it's not what you know it's who you know and who your parents know and how rich you are.

Maybe a subsidy the Tories could remove is treating Public Schools as charities.

Finland has one of the best education systems in the world but what it does not have is bloody public schools

'Finland has one of the best education systems in the world but what it does not have is bloody public schools'

How many people from abroad choose to send their children to boarding schools or any schools in Finland? How many queue up to send their children to some of our top schools? Russian oligarchs, Chinese millionaires etc. choose our schools above Finnish schools.

But the situation is more complex than: all public school boys = powerful jobs; all state school children = menial blue collar jobs. Patently, there are plenty of people educated in the state sector who do excel in all fields- some more easily than others obviously.

My husband went to a bog standard comp, got a 1st from Oxbridge and is now a barrister. Will he ever be Master of the Rolls or in the House of Lords? Highly unlikely- he just doesn't move in the "right circles" no matter how talented he is professionally speaking.

Why did Boris Johnson go to Eton and not to one of these great schools in Finland?

I think Chil is spot on. You go to a top school like that and all those around you are determined to succeed. So you aspire to your surroundings.

Sure money & connections help but its the environment which makes the person.

I was talking to my DD earlier. She goes to a state school where there are a large contingent of no-hopers. She said after a recent school trip to somewhere to talk about "careers", she was sitting with some other girls rather than her mates. They were all planning to be working in nurseries, beauty & of course hairdressing. They then asked mine what she wanted to do. "Law" came the reply. You'd think she'd said she wanted to travel to Mars or something. Now in a private school, that sort of attitude would be the norm, not the exception.

claig re Boris, nice try but no bite.

Regarding Finland how can anyone "send their children" to a Finnish school, they are state schools for Finnish citizens you numpty.

People with real money and their offspring to Eton etc because they are snobbish fuckers who dont want little Rupert mixing with Johny from the comp. Also because it will bring (unearned) privilege to Rupert.

Fay, spot on, you are mostly born into the "right circles".

Old school tie anyone.

SWC, please explain to me how a Public School is a "charity" and dont come out with the cobblers about the locals being able to use their playing fields.

If we have to have cuts as "Dave" says that would be a good start or is it only the poor that have to have cuts.

SWC, your choice but that does not make the school a charity.