Is capitalim dying ?

[magicbutterfly]

With the economic crisis gripping all major economies around the world, has capitalism finally run its course ?

'Guardian readers are part of the thinking class.'

Then why do they pay any attention to Ben Goldacre and George Monbiot?

Monbiot talks a lot of sense, Polly is the best political commentator in any paper except just maybe Andrew Rawnsley.

Polly is a moron

But don't those three scour the Monster Raving Loony Party's website looking for ideas?

Soon, they'll probably come out with

"Cool on the outside:
To combat global warming and climate change all buildings should be fitted with air conditioning units on the outside.

Wheelie Bins:
The idea of weight monitoring chips in wheelie bins should be scrapped, instead the wheels should be removed, this would mean that if people generated too much waist they could not put their non-wheelie bin out for collection. It would also help prevent them being chucked into canals"

Newwave. Read 100 years of the 'hate filled Gaurdian' that will put you straight!

The economic crisis is capitalism. It's an integral part of how capitalism works.

Yes newwave the Gaurdian is a for the 'thinking class' and they think this 'the working class, can kiss my arse!'

Very true.

Which is why when Gordon Brown said he wanted to put an end to 'bomm & bust' I had to chuckle.

In a Capitalist society there will always be boom & bust. It's only natural.

Claig. Tescos made 3.6 billion in profit last year....yes the donkeys are certainly getting my money, that and the owners of small shops.

They made a profit because they are a good business and people go there to do their shopping. They are a very successful British business and they have stires all over the world. they employ thousands of British workers in stores, warehouses and distribution. We need more companies like Tescos. But small shops are also great and everyone loves donkeys.

Small shops are far too pricey and they don't have reward cards.

Principles tend to go out of the window when you are skint..

I think there is more to this economic crisis than just the normal boom and bust cycles of capitalism. This is worldwide and we are seeing the same solutions in most countries. We are entering a brutal phase where our rights will be attacked, our pensions will suffer and we will have to work till we drop. The clock will be turned back and our standard of living will decline. The greens were nit able to bring our population down and our growth rates down, so the economic crisis will be used to do it instead.

It is not capitalism per se, it is just being used to achieve that effect.

"let the whole capitalist system collapse I say"

OP - what exactly do you mean? What do you think should replace it? I think you might be being just a touch naive here - I think we would soon see all sorts of massive problems and eventually total anarchy.

Indeed claig, but the majority of countries in the world are Capitalist anyway, so the boom & bust has a lot of bearing..

The "bust" is so severe this time because GB thought he could prevent the "boom". He delayed it certainly, while house prices were spiralling out of control and credit was being flushed through the system in ever more complex packages, he couldn't recognise or compute that we were in the midst of a boom. His "golden rules" were in place and the bank were handed control of interest rates while what we really needed was interest rates to increase to slow up the inevitable disaster that lay ahead.

real capitalism is about free and fair competition, no cartels that fix prices, no monopolistic businesses. None of us live in that great world. We are beholden to the powerful. The reckless bankers gambled the people's money away at no risk to themselves, knowing full well that Gordon Brown would bail them out with our money.
But they have been doing that for years. Why did it suddenly collapse? Who stopped the music?

They used socialism to bail the banks out and we, the suckers, footed the bill. It's not real capitalism. It's power. Sometimes they call it socialism, sometimes they call it capitalism, but there's only ever one winner, and it's not the people.

Well that is true.

Labour tend to be 'socialists' when it suits them, after all. We will never live in a true Socialist/Communist society, no matter what anyone likes to think.

And believing that the Labour party are socialists is one of the biggest mistakes anyone can make.

Sometimes they give the people a real socialist/communist society like Stasi East Germany or the Soviet Union. But that is pure slavery and servitude with all rights and freedoms removed. We are lucky to live in a quasi-capitalist society. Who knows what we will suffer in the future? They may give us a green socialist hell, a real DNA database dreamland.

capitalism will never die because human beings are too selfish to truly have any other system than 'what's in it for me?' AKA 'I'm Alright Jack'

Until we evolve beyond this, there will be no other way. It's human nature to look after yourself, to make sure you're ok. To make sure you survive. And not enough people want it to be different, not enough people want a 'from each according to ability, to each according to needs'

and those that do, are generally the 'to each' rather than the 'from each'. Such is life.

'and those that do, are generally the 'to each' rather than the 'from each'. Such is life.'

that's right. Don't believe the pied pipers of communism. They don't have anyone's interests at heart apart from themselves. Nature has made us to look after our own on purpose. That way if everyone looks after their own, then the pied pipers are not able to take over and look after themselves. As Cote D'Azur often says, life is a bit like game theory. All of us worker ants look after our own and join others in unions etc. to still look after our own and the common interests of others, and together we produce a society that the pied pipers can't easily control for their own interests.

Our welfare state is great and has developed naturally as a result of us all fighting to look after our own. We can look after our own by helping other's to look after their own. Most of the powerful throughout history don't have our interests at heart.

helping others

"capitalism will never die because human beings are too selfish to truly have any other system than 'what's in it for me?' AKA 'I'm Alright Jack'"

I'm not sure that's true, Hecate- In as much as I don't think the selfishness is inherent or part of human nature; I think it's more a symptom of living under capitalism. However, capitalism is self-perpetuating in that it instills in people a selfishness which prevents any other system (socialism, communism) from being properly implemented.

Socialism cannot work when it follows capitalism.

You clearly have a higher opinion of people than I do I think people are that selfish and I think it is hardwired into us to be so.

Who would go without so that someone else could have something?

Someone on £40,000 a year - anyone on this thread? - give £10,000 a year of it to someone who's on £20,000. No? Thought not.

People look after themselves. First. Second. Third. They may then do a token bit -a 'look at me I'm all altruistic and stuff' bit - but they won't make their life actually worse in any measurable way for the benefit of others.

At least nobody I have ever met in my entire 37 years on this planet.

"Who would go without so that someone else could have something?"

Not disagreeing with you that we are that selfish, Hecate- even socialist little me - just disagreeing that it is part of human nature. I think capitalism causes the selfishness.

However, I think this means that a socialist society can never work- because we are all products of a capitalist society. It cannot be undone.

typing with toddler on lap- making little sense, sorry