Independence for Scotland?

[Hammerlikedaisies]

First Minister Salmond thinks more people are in favour than pre 1997.

I can't make my mind up. I hate Nationalism of any sort, but independence might well be the best thing for Scotland, if you want a more peaceful, humane government - because let's face it, the Tory-Lib Coalition is no fun for anyone. On the other hand, I'd hate to break up the UK.

What do you think?

Claig, we could read the history of the Liberals and Tories, way back when, but they are completely different now.

Not relevant. What do the Greens stand for now? I imagine that if a local landowner looked after the land in a sustainable way and provided local jobs, they wouldn't have a problem with that.

Maybe it's time to move on from the Tory - Labour - Liberal unhappy threesome and let a party in that doesn't have form, has a much wider perspective, is prepared to bring in unpopular policies for long term benefit, and has some new ideas?

Is your concern that an Independent Scotland would be too environmentally focussed? Wouldn't smaller ideas be better heard in a small country?

How do you think the Scottish political landscape would be different if you removed Green politics? They don't seem to be THAT strong a force.

If Scotland goes independent, then it will probably vote for green poed popers and socialists like that. Then we will see what happens to Scotland. The people will soon realise their mistake and will vote for different policies.

What will be will be. But in the end, I think the dynamic Scottish people will reject those stultifying policies.

Back to OP's point - Scottish nationalism is very clearly civic, and not ethnic nationalism, and there is a big difference.
To those who think we are a drain on the rest of the UK (by which they mean SE England) I would ask if this were the case, why have you not got rid of us before now
As you may guess, I am in favour of independence for Scotland.

green pied pipers, sorry my keyboard letters have been wiped off the keyboard

'green poed popers'? Ooer - does sound rather nasty!!

I don't have the e the a the s the n or the m . Makes life interesting ...

LemonDifficult, I don't mind if the Scottish people believe that "we have only 50 days to save the planet" and follow green policies. I think greens will probably never run the government. But they don't have to. Gordon Brown and all the main parties follow and really lead the green agenda.

Does anyone know a solution to the keyboard problem? Is there some paint or tippex or something that doesn't get wiped out?

Claigm not sure I understand why you don't like Green policies? Wouldn't they be better for both England and Scotland?

Claig , this is interesting for me as I'm usually the one who's suspicious of green propaganda. However, I cannot see that Scotland would be overrun by Green Issue policies just because we were independent.

Far more serious could be the 'bash the rich/bash the toffs/bash the English' negativity which just never seems far off stage in Scottish politics. It just makes Scotland look so lame to outsiders.

I think that many (but not all) of their policies are anti-progress and anti the ordinary people, and serve the interests of the rich establishment nimbies who don't want the commoners to prosper and live in the green fields in their back yards. But read an establishment figure such as Sir Jonathon Porritt, a green for many years, and you will see what it is really all about.

LemonDifficult, maybe if we were independent there would be less anti-Englishness? We'd have to make our own mistakes and would have no-one else to blame.

I think the Greens bring rich and poor together in their efforts to improve people's actual living conditions. They are not in thrall to big business (yet) at least, so their policies probably are more people-friendly.

However, they aren't very powerful in Scotland anyway. Far more powerful are the banks and multinational companies and rich developers. Just like in the rest of the UK/world.

LemonDifficult, I think that Scotland would initially fall into the socialist trap of the greens and other anti-industrialisation socialists, who are the proponents of the 'bash the rich' thinking. I think this would be bad for Scotland in the short term as the people of Scotland would not prosper. But I think this would be shortlived, because the people would understand the trap and would throw off their chains and would demand dynamic growth policies which provide work and prosperity. The end result would be good and the pied pipers would have to prey on someone else.

HLD - I think you are right about that. Scotland would definitely do some 'growing up' and that kind of responsibility would be positive.

I just think the process would be horrendous. A serious depletion of ambitious and positive businesses/people to other countries.

LD not necessarily. Why?

Agree that it is the banks and multinationals who are the real power. They get what they want and no 'Swampy' will stop them. In fact, 'Swampy' doesn't even realise that he is doing what they want.

Well, the Financial sector wouldn't be as comfortable with the Leftism of the typical Scot and might go somewhere more business friendly. Small businesses too. Rates in Scotland tend to be higher than elsewhere in the UK already.

The Arts in Scotland are disproportionately funded in the UK budget and there's a lot of patronage from business that keep it afloat. Lose the UK-wide funding and the business and you'll lose ambitious creative types too. Sure, they'll come back for concerts/exhibitions/festivals but they will be off somewhere buzzier most of the time.

hammerlikedaises. 'leave England alone to sink or swim' it's more likely we will leave the Scottish 'to sink or swim'!. Scotland although not liking the English, rely on our handouts. I feel it would be sad if they became independant, but not a great loss to England. I think many Scots know where their bread is buttered. If they wish to leave Britian fine, just get on with building Hadrians wall!( Oh and make sure they have Scottish passports if they want to enter England!

Priklytinsel. 'Clearly civic and not ethnic nationalism?' What do you mean? Many Scots can't stand the English, and many English cannot stand the Scots, it's nationalism isn't it? The Scots have never got over being part of Britian for the last 300 years. They rely on us but don't like us! That is why at the last world cup they were selling T.shirts with ABE on them (anyone but England) Andy Murray (arse) the tennis player said he would support "anyone but England" Yes there's lots of nationalism!

I hope you're wrong, LemonDifficult, about the funding for the Arts. Scotland is a tremendously creative place, with lots of homegrown talent.

I'd love for Scotland to become independent, so we didn't have to listen to people like complimentary accusing us of living on handouts, or all the other whinging about university fees, prescription charges, or anything else where the English feel aggrieved that we have better policies than them.

Equally I'd be happy to not have to listen to the whinges of some Scots that everything bad that ever happens is the fault of the English.

Actually Lemon, the SNP government cut business rated for small businesses to 0%!, it has really helped DH get our creative business going. DH also voted SNP for the first time last year...

If Scotland want to be independent then i'm all for it.

But the SNP should be honest and tell people that an independent Scotland will be less influential in the world since it will be a very small economy and that the population will be worse off since more UK taxes are paid into Scotland than we receive.

So sure, be my guest. In any free society, if you want to do things the hard way, you should be allowed to.